Band in a Box and Midi Maker

[Tyros5Mad]

Hi all,

I just purchased Band in a Box 2019. Two features attracted me to the software:
-- Band in a box can be used as a VST plugin for DAW software.
-- Band in a box can record audio and uses a TC Helicon plugin to create vocal harmonies.

At a basic level my own software Midi Maker (MM2) is like Band in a Box (BIAB). MM2 creates backing tracks using Yamaha arranger keyboard styles whereas BIAB creates backing tracks using its own styles. So I am thinking now about that I could use both programs to achieve my goal, which is to create great sounding backing tracks to use for my cover songs.

-- Can I somehow create new Yamaha styles from BIAB styles?
-- Can I import the chords and lyrics from one to the other?

All interesting stuff. As you guys probably know by now, I always want to learn new ways to create music. Just sitting at the keyboard and playing is not enough for me, although I love doing that as well.

So stay tuned. As always I will share what I find out.

Love you all,
Richard.

[Tyros5Mad]

Hi again,

So the first thing I have found out is that Band in a Box has its own DAW called Realband. This DAW can use BIAB features such as styles and chords and it will generate audio tracks from that using the built-in styles.

It can also import and record audio and vocals and use VST plugins. This alone was worth the $90 US I paid for the software.

This is very cool and may spell the end of Audacity and Cakewalk by Bandlab for me. We shall see.

Regards,
Richard

[SeaGtGruff]

Keep us up to date on your findings, as I'm sure many members here are interested in BIAB.

[Pino]

When you first try this software it sounds fresh and exciting but after a few weeks, for whatever reason, it's put back on the shelf.

As a Yamaha arranger keyboard player, playing styles only, of what use would  BIAB be for me?. BIAB styles would not work on a Yamaha keyboard, many of my friends are very excited about BIAB but not seen any of their work move onto a Yamaha keyboard in style format.

Just my thoughts,
Pino

[Tyros5Mad]

I am not really interested in the BIAB styles, which is why I only bought the basic package.. I think they fall far short of what the PSR/Tyros/Genos styles sound like.

However, there is so much more to BIAB and Realband. Already I have found gold in the Realband DAW. I am looking forward to recording my backing tracks and vocals and then creating complex harmonies and applying spatial/surround effects with my VST plugins.

I also played with other options. For example, I imported a midi file with lyrics that I had created with the Genos and Midi Maker and then created a lead sheet PDF file with just a few clicks.

So we will see how we go and I will keep everyone updated on what I find out. So much to enjoy, so little time.

Regards,
Richard

[Tyros5Mad]

Having loads of fun with BIAB.
I tested the VST plugin in Cakewalk by Bandlab and it worked very well (see attached picture). I could also use BIAB's own DAW Realband.
-- First I created some chords. I used my recent song Leaving on a Jetplane.
-- I chose a random pop style in BIAB and generated the tracks. What is interesting is that each instrument in the style is generated onto a separate track. This means that I can insert effects separately onto each instrument in the style. This is something we cannot do with a Yamaha style. Also all the tracks are generated as audio tracks.
-- Then I dragged the tracks into Cakewalk and added panning effects to the drums and guitars. This created a very nice sounding style, ready for the vocals to be added, which I did not do in this test.

Have a listen (best heard with headphones). Its quite repetitive so no need to listen to the whole song.

Regards,
Richard

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[Tyros5Mad]

I have spent hours and hours learning Band in a Box (BIAB) and Realband. My backside hurts, I am sleep deprived, my eyes are glazed over but I have enjoyed every second of it.

So now as an exercise I want to try and produce a song entirely with BIAB styles, Realband and my vocals.

BIAB has loads of styles that are made from audio samples played by real musicians. These styles can be used as is or styles can be made up from parts of other styles. BIAB has been around for so long that there are thousands of backing tracks already made for popular songs. I will have alook at those as well.

You guys can be the judges of whether it was a worthwhile exercise or not.

Regards,
Richard

[Tyros5Mad]

I had a lightbulb moment while browsing through the styles section in my Genos manual. Style channels can be turned on and off. Of course I knew this but somehow it did not occur to me that this is how I can record each channel of the style separately to my DAW. In fact I did not see a need to record each channel separately until I started playing with Band in a Box/Realband and found out that it records each instrument of a style to a separate track in the DAW. This allowed me to move the instruments around in the mix spatially and create a better sound.

We live and learn.
Regards, Richard

[Pino]

Hi Richard.
I'm reading every word of your posts with interest
Well done for taking the time to share your findings here.

I see 12 downloads of your screenshot but no feed back.

Will have to get back into BIAB as soon as I have a few hours.

Regards
Pino

[Tyros5Mad]

If one decides to buy some piece of hardware or software it is common sense to make an effort to understand how the item works. I am far from understanding exactly how the Genos works but I am working on that bit by bit.

Same with software. Today I found out that I can create a new style in Biab/Realband from samples pulled from realtracks, which are samples of real instruments and then simply save that as a user style. Now I am investigating whether I can use samples from outside of BIAB to make these styles.

Perhaps samples recorded from the Genos?

Regards,
Richard

[ekurburski]

hey, Richard.  BIAB is a monster and it gets better with each upgrade.  I have had it for ever (since 6.0 on floppies) and still haven't scratched the surface.  Kind of like learning all of the features on a new keyboard,   The sound of you mp3 was great!  Looking forward to a lot more from you in the future.

[Tyros5Mad]

Just posted a song done completely in Band in a box - have a listen.

Details in this post: https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,51008.0.html

Regards,
Richard

[Tyros5Mad]

Continuing with my discoveries in Band in a Box I found a really cool feature called "UserTracks".

This means I can record an instrument or multiple instruments from my Genos into BIAB to either make an existing BIAB style better or replace a BIAB style.

Then I can use the features I like in BIAB to make a backing track that sounds like it came from the Genos.

Very cool stuff.

Regards,
Richard

[Tyros5Mad]

Hi there Music Makers,

Band in a Box
I have now done a lot of work with Band in a Box and I have found lots of very useful features for the way I like to produce music.

• RealTracks, which are audio samples played and recorded by real musicians, sound as good as any style from a Yamaha Keyboard. One can also mix tracks from different styles to make a custom style, which is great. I only have the basic package so I do not have too many Realtracks available.
• Instrument tracks can be recorded from a keyboard and added to a style or used to replace an existing track in a style to make a custom style. Great feature!
• Creating a chord chart is really easy and this has inspired me to reprogram my Midi Maker software - see below.
• The best feature in my opinion is that there's a TC Helicon harmonizer built in. It is a feature I intend to use a lot.
• There's also support for VST plugins and I certainly will use that. Band in a Box itself can be used as a plugin for other DAWs such as Pro Tools etc.

There are many other features (check the web site) but the ones I have listed are the ones I am most interested in.

Midi Maker
My software Midi Maker essentially has the same goal as Band in a Box, which is to make backing tracks for instrumental or vocal songs. Whereas Band in a Box has it's own proprietary styles, Midi Maker is made for Yamaha arranger keyboards. It will make backing tracks using built in styles or custom styles as long they are Yamaha styles. The good news is that it is and always will be totally free.

Previous versions were a bit clunky in creating the chord/lyric charts but I have put a lot of work in to try and change that, taking some ideas from Band in a Box.

• Midi Maker no longer has a builtin song editor. Any spreadsheet program can be used to create the chord/lyrics chart as long as it can export the chart to a CSV file. Midi Maker will display and process the CSV file and create the midi file from that. I use Google Sheets but Excel or any other spreadsheet program can also be used. I have a layout template in the form of a CSV file which in be imported into the spreadsheet program.
• Measures can be simplified. For example if only the measure number is entered then the beat is assumed to be 1 and the tick is assumed to be 0.
• Chords can be simplified. For example if only the root chord is entered then the chord type is assumed to be Maj and the bass note is assumed to be the same as the chord.
• There is support for style control using the "External Controller" feature of most of the recent keyboards (PSR, Tyros and Genos)
• Commands include Start, Stop, VH on and VH off. Multipads On and Stop can be selected, Fade in/out can be controlled and Registrations one, two, and three can be selected.

Once you have your backing tracks, the keyboard can be used to play them back while you accompany the backing track with the keyboard or other live instruments or vocals. The new version of Midi Maker will be released next week. I have attached a sample of the template used in creating the chord/lyric charts.

So that's where I am at right now. Love to hear your comments.

Regards,
Richard

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[Tyros5Mad]

Here's a sample of the new Midi Maker screen. It imports a CSV file and has the features to turn that into a backing track.

Regards,
Richard

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[willem7397]

Looks great Richard, once you have the updated version ready I will give Midi Maker a try. Normally when I need a backing chord track I just record it on Genos with quick midi record but then it's without lyrics.
Would I be able to open such an existing chord track (midi file) in Midi Maker and add lyrics?

[Tyros5Mad]

Looks great Richard, once you have the updated version ready I will give Midi Maker a try. Normally when I need a backing chord track I just record it on Genos with quick midi record but then it's without lyrics.
Would I be able to open such an existing chord track (midi file) in Midi Maker and add lyrics?

Midi Maker does not have the ability right now to import chords from a midi file.

My process also includes making a quick record midi file but I already have the chords/lyrics in the spreadsheet. Here's how I use Midi Maker:
-- Step 1: Make a chord/lyrics chart in my spreadsheet
-- Step 2: Make a chord track from the chord/lyrics chart
-- Step 3: Make a quick recording using the chord track to play the keyboard from the computer
-- Step 4: Export the lyrics from the chord chart
-- Step 5: Import the lyrics into the quick record file

So we are missing Step 1 (the most important part of the process) but I think we could get the chords from the recorded file and use that to make the chord/lyrics file. I will have a look at that for you.

Stay tuned,
Richard

[Tyros5Mad]

@ Willem

I created a simple quick record midi file and then had a look at the midi file in PSRUTI. I can see chords so that is a good start.

By the way PSRUTI is a great piece of software from Michael Bedesem Heiko Plate. Thank you Michael Heiko.

So now the task is to get that info into a spreadsheet layout for Midi Maker so the lyrics can be added and then Midi Maker can be used to complete the backing track. It will take a bit of work but it can be done.

Lucky for us PSRUTI can export the chords to a text file, which can then be used to make a Midi Maker song file.

Let me finish the new version of Midi Maker and then I will show you how we can turn your quick record files into Backing tracks with lyrics.

Best regards,
Richard

[MBedesem]

I am not the author. It is Heiko Plate.

His excellent program is available here:https://psrtutorial.com/util/plate.html

Regards,

Michael

[Tyros5Mad]

I have done it again

I always get you two guys mixed up. Sorry about that.

Yes of course it is Heiko Plate, author of the wonderful HP_Midifile software used by Michael Bedesem and others to make their software.

Thanks Heiko.

[willem7397]

Thanks Richard,

Looking forward to see the new version of your program in action.
I know there are lot's of other excellent programs out there a.o. from Heiko Plate and Michael Bedesem.
Your program just looks appealing to me due to its purpose for a single task: just creating chord tracks with lyrics which makes it less complex, at least to me  .

In the past I have spent quite some time on making all kind of corrections on my own recordings but I stopped with that. Its just too time consuming and I want to be able to play a song live. If I make errors I just have to practice harder to get it right  . However for some purposes a chord backing track can be handy for e.g. left and right hand piano playing.

[Wim NL]

Michael Bedesem his program MixMaster 4.6.6 did have the Chord Step Record function.

Here 3 Screen shots from the Chord Step Record edit page

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[Tyros5Mad]

Just to be clear.

Midi Maker does not create a step record file. It creates a chord/lyric chart very similar to what Band in a Box does. It then uses the chart and the selected Yamaha style to control the keyboard and produce the sound.

The second phase is that you can make a standard midi file by recording the playback on the keyboard using the quick record method. When you do this the recording does not have the lyrics so we have to add the lyrics to the quick record file.

Midi maker can do this by exporting the lyrics with the measure numbers to a text file and then inserting the lyrics into the recorded midi file at the correct measures. We now have a complete backing track with lyrics. The exported lyrics file is 100% compatible with PSRUTI.

The backing track can now be used on the keyboard or from a computer. You can use the backing track in all the ways you would use a purchased backing track, except you made it yourself.

I hope this explains Midi Maker more clearly. If you don't use or need backing tracks then you do not need Midi Maker. If you do want to make your own backing tracks for your keyboard then you can use Midi Maker. It is free of charge. I don't care whether you make backing tracks for fun or you sell them or whatever. That's up to you.

I use Midi Maker backing tracks to create my cover songs and make videos of them.

Regards,
Richard

[Wim NL]

Midi Maker does not create a step record file. It creates a chord/lyric chart very similar to what Band in a Box does.

Isn't that not the same as at the Genos :  "Song Record > Multi Record > Step Edit > Target > Chord" does and also the program MixMaster 4.6.6 in the Chord Step Record function.

Midi maker can do this by exporting the lyrics with the measure numbers to a text file and then inserting the lyrics into the recorded midi file at the correct measures

Lyrics can also be imported in the Genos Song with Chord data, also Mix Master can do that.

See attached Song with Chords, Lyrics, 2 piano tracks and melody.
The MP3 is made with the Genos and transposed C-4.
I used the style ChristmasWaltz.
In "Song Record > Multi Record > Step Edit > Target > Chord" you can select another preset style.
You van use this Song with other yamaha keyboards and choose the style there.

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[Tyros5Mad]

Guys and Gals,

Use whatever program you feel the most comfortable with. I am not trying to push my program onto anyone. I wrote it for myself and I use it for my music but because I love this forum and the people on it I shared it with everyone here.

So far I have shared 15,000 MP3/CDG songs which I purchased for around $1,000.00 some years ago.
I have shared some of my many custom styles that I have acquired over the years.
I have also shared my expertise in computers that I have acquired by running a computer business for 12 years.

Use it or don't use it. It's all the same to me.

Best regards,
Richard

[Pino]

Hi Richard

I have followed your posts for a long time, you have been a big contributor on this forum.

Recently, in response to a members question, I wrote a mini tutorial on how to accomplish something on our keyboards, took a few hours to write, take photos and upload.

It was viewed and downloaded over 75 times but not one "thank you".
It's a pity really cos I have many years of experience with keyboards and MIDI and feel like I could help newer members which I have done many, many times over the years.

If someone came to my music studio for advice on which keyboard to buy, or how to make registrations or some midi file problem then I would help them, if that person were to leave without shaking my hand and say "thank you" then that person would never be welcomed back to my studio again, it costs nothing to say "Thank You'

Maybe this internet thing has changed the way we live our lives.

Regards

Pino

[Tyros5Mad]

So back to the thread.

Midi Maker
The new version is completed and I am just testing to try and catch any bugs.
-- It will support all recent PSR keyboard styles except the 2 new ones. Also all Tyros keyboards and Genos.
-- It supports custom styles.
-- It supports all chords recognized by Yamaha keyboards.
-- It supports Sy*** commands like Style Start/Stop and VH On/Off.
-- It supports commands sent on channel 16 to a keyboard set up for receiving External Controller commands (see pics below).
-- Supported commands are Multi Pads On/Stop, Fade In/Out and Reg 1-7.
I will probably release it in the next couple of days.

Band in a Box/Realband
-- I am excited with some of the many features in BIAB/RB as I have said previously.
-- I did a song (Let It Be - The Beatles) completely in BIAB/RB and it was OK but I thought the backing track was a bit weak.

I am doing the song again but experimenting with a different workflow this time:
-- First record with a Genos style and Midi Maker
-- Add the vocals
-- Record the midi file to Realband. A great feature in RB is the ability to split all the midi tracks by channel. This means I can apply panning effects to each instrument separately to create a better spatial mix.
-- Let RB convert all tracks to audio (another great feature)
-- Add the audio track and play with the TC Helicon plugin to create harmonies and move the audio around in the mix as well.

Hopefully create a song that sounds good. If not, on to the next experiment. For me the journey is always more satisfying than the destination.

Regards,
Richard




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