Can you play styles from PSR S-models on the E463?

[Toril S]

Hello. I just wondered if it is possible to play styles from PSR s models on the E463? I know it has fewer variations, but can the styles be played with reasonable good sound? I asked in our local music store, but the only answer I got was that he didn't think so.

[vbdx66]

Hi Toril,

You have to try it out, it is a kind of hit-or-miss thing. There are a few rules to observe, though.

First of all, the styles should be less than 50KB or they won't load. Secondly, they need to be in SFF1 file format, the E463 won't read SFF2 files.

Thirdly, it is best to avoid styles with Megavoices and SA voices since the E463 doesn't have those.

Jørgen Sørensen has made various software to tweak styles, you might want to check those on the main PSR Tutorial website in the Software section.

As for the fact that the E463 styles only have 2 variations, as long as the files are not larger than 50KB this shan't be a problem the E463 will simply read variations A and B, Intro 1 and Ending 1. If you need, say, Intro 2 and Variations C and D and Ending 3, you could always copy the variations you need in a new style as variations Intro 1, variations A and B and Ending 1, that way the E463 would have access to them.

What you also could do is remap the voices in the style because if you read a PSR S style in the E453, there are chances that the mapping of voices will be wrong.
Styles which are using XG voices will give a better result than styles which use panel voices, because the E463 is XG-lite compatible, so in this case the mapping of voices will be correct.

The best thing to do probably is to take any style that you like, which is in SFF1 file format and smaller than 50KB, copy it onto an USB stick, then upload it to the E463 and listen to decide whether you like the result. The E463 won't read the styles directly from the USB stick, you will have to copy them to the keyboard. The E463 can store 10 external styles at a time.

In the past I had the PSR E433, the older version of the E463, and I was able to upload many styles to the keyboard. Sometimes the result was strange, but sometimes it was also very good.

Hope this helps,

Vinciane

[Toril S]

Hello Vinciane! Thank you so much for the clear explanation!
I was thinking about getting an E463 as a backup keyboard. What I really liked about it was that it was so lightweight! And you could fit it with batteries for great mobility! What I didn't like was the screen. The size of the E463 is the size of my first keyboard, a PSR-47. Those S models are heavy beasts. It would have been nice with a lightweight keyboard that could play styles directly from the USB device! Too bad it can't do that! I think I will stick to having my PSR 2100 as backup keyboard. SFF1 only there too, but I have four variations and can load more styles in the keyboard. But i really liked the E463 when I played it in the shop. It felt good

[Fantomas]

It takes a short time to copy a style from USB key to keyboard memory.

[vbdx66]

Hi Toril,

I am thinking myself of buying one because it is so lightweight and has a host of interesting features. Even if it can't load styles from an USB stick, don't forget that it already hosts 235 Styles, some of them are quite nice. Also it can load styles quickly from the USB stick into the 10 user slots in its internal memory.

The little screen of the E463 is not much of a problem because it hasn't so many function and its usage is pretty straightforward.

Regards,

Vinciane

Regards,

Vinciane

[Toril S]

That is true Vinciane. It seems to be straight forward to operate. Will think about it.

[pjd]

Excellent reply, Vinciane!

Toril, if you start converting S-series styles to SFF1 and have issues, please give us a holler. It can be done, but can get technical.

All the best -- pj

[Toril S]

Will do, PJ

[vbdx66]

Excellent reply, Vinciane!

Toril, if you start converting S-series styles to SFF1 and have issues, please give us a holler. It can be done, but can get technical.

All the best -- pj

Hi PJ,

Maybe you could do some lessons on how to do this on your blog? Many PSR E 4xx would just love to know how to convert PSR S styles for the E4xx keyboards with M. Bedesem and J. Sørensen software and/or using a DAW.

Regards,

Vinciane

[SeaGtGruff]

I posted some detailed step-by-step instructions for this a while back, but I think those posts were lost in the purge. Following is just a brief step-by-step from memory, so the details need to be fleshed out a bit:

(1) Convert the style file from "SFF2" to "SFF1."

(2) Rearrange the style sections to remove any that won't be used and to move the desired ones to the variation A and B sections.

(3) Revoice the style so it uses only voices which are available on your model and to use the best-sounding voices.

(4) Check the effects to make sure the style uses only effects which are available on your model.

(5) Remove any MIDI messages which are unsupported on your model-- for instance, DSP insertion effects.

(6) Verify that the resulting style file is not too large-- no larger than approximately 50kB.

(7) Rename the style file so it uses the ".STY" extension and so the first 8 characters of its name are enough to identify it.

[Toril S]

Thanks Michael!

[pjd]

Hi Vinciane, Toril and everyone --

Thanks for the suggestion. The best suggestion that I can make is reading Jørgen's style creation course:

http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles/style_creation_course.pdf
http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles/keyboard_and_style.pdf

If folks don't like PDF, there are on-line versions of the same articles:

http://www.jososoft.dk/yamaha/articles.htm

Honest to goodness, Jørgen has done a super job!

Another excellent resource is "Style Files - Introduction and Details" by Peter Wierzba and Michael Bedesem:

http://www.wierzba.homepage.t-online.de/StyleFileDescription_v21.pdf

This document and other very useful information are published on Peter's site:

https://psrtutorial.com/util/wierzba.html

Anyone who is interested in creating new styles really needs to know what is inside of a style file -- not just hand-waving, but to know in enough depth to start editing.

Another alternative is the high-level tool MidiSoft Style Magic:

http://www.midisoft.pl/en/

Even then, a modest amount of background information is needed.

Once someone has the background, I encourage them to read a few existing articles at my site. Parts 2 and 3 of the series:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/mox-perf-to-psr-style-part-1/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/mox-perf-to-psr-style-part-2/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/mox-perf-to-psr-style-part-3/

describe translation of a Standard Midi File to a style. Another potentially useful article is about converting the Yamaha DJX II patterns to styles:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/mining-the-yamaha-djx-ii/

So, there are already quite a few resources available. Jørgen, Michael and Peter have really shown the way!

All the best -- pj

[pjd]

Oops, I have one more suggestion.

Crack open a style file with a DAW and look inside. First, change the file name extension to ".mid" by renaming the file. Then, open the file in a DAW like Sonar or Cubase. Poke around.

A Yamaha style file consists of "chunks." A style file must have a MIDI chunk and may contain a CASM chunk and an OTS chunk. The CASM chunk holds the NTR/NTT information that you can see and edit in PSR Style Creator. The OTS chunk holds the OTS information.

DAWs ignore the Yamaha chunks, so if you open and edit the MIDI file in a DAW, it won't have the original CASM and/or OTS chunks. That's where Jørgen's style split/splice tool comes into play. The tool splits a style file into MIDI and non-MIDI parts. After editing, the tool splices the MIDI and non-MIDI parts back together again to make a complete style file.

If someone gets this far, they can move mountains.   

-- pj

[SeaGtGruff]

I heartily recommend learning about the format and inner workings of style files.

But keeping in mind that the original question is about playing already-existing PSR-S style files on a PSR-E model-- not about creating a new style file from scratch-- and not wanting to frighten away the faint of heart who are intimidated by technical details, I'd like to stress that it's very easy to convert existing style files to work on a PSR-E using Jorgen's utilities, without ever needing to know all of the technical details.

In fact, some of the steps I listed can frequently be omitted, as in many cases a PSR-S style file will play on a PSR-E without needing anything more than a conversion from SFF2 to SFF1.

EDIT: ... and being renamed to have the ".STY" extension, which can be done automatically by the same utility that converts SFF2 files to SFF1 files.

[pjd]

... and not wanting to frighten away the faint of heart who are intimidated by technical details, ...

Absolutely! Thanks, Michael. It's OK (and fun) to experiment.

Please, please don't be afraid. If a style file doesn't work, blow it off and try again. We need all the experimenters that we can get. 

Love you all -- pj

[vbdx66]

Hi again pj and Michael,

In the first post, Toril asked whether it was possible to use PSR S styles in the E463 and that they would sound reasonably good.

This is really where things get tricky, because styles which will work without tweaking will mostly rely on the XG or XG lite soundbank to fetch voices, and thus they won't sound as good as they could because voice mapping will be inadequate, since the converted styles won't have access to the better « panel » voices.

So when converting styles to the PSR S970 to the E463 (but it would be true for any other couple of keyboard models), it could be a good idea to have the list of voices of both keyboards at hand in order to use software to replace within the converted style, the voices of the first keyboard to the best corresponding voices of the second keyboard.

Another option would be to work just within the voice set of the E463 and for each XG lite voice used within the converted style, make a conversion table with, for each XG lite voice used, its equivalent in the panel voices set.

For instance for the PSR E463, if a converted style is using voice number 302 which is the XG Grand Piano, it could be a good idea to replace it by voice number 001 which is the default Grand Piano. If the style uses voice 422 (XG Acoustic Bass), it could replaced by voice 055, which is the regular Acoustic Bass, etc.

Here is the Data List for the PSR E463:

https://jp.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/1/1170831/psre463_ew410_en_fr_es_de_dl_b0.pdf

That said, I don't have the slightest idea on which software to use to achieve this voice remapping process 

I suppose that someone possessing both keyboards could remap the styles directly on the S970 (but of course one should be aware that they would sound very strange on the S970 once remapped according to the E463 voice set).

Regards,

Vinciane

[pjd]

That said, I don't have the slightest idea on which software to use to achieve this voice remapping process 

Good points, Vinciane.

Actually, good old Mixmaster should be up to the job. I think it's as simple as opening the style file in Mixmaster, changing the voice assignments, and writing out the style file. Mixmaster preserves the CASM and OTS information.

Jorgen offers "Style Revoicer," but I don't have direct experience with it. I'm sure it's good, considering the source. 

All the best -- pj

[vbdx66]

Well, well... something to get occupied during long winter evenings or so it seems...

Vinciane

[jossy]

Pls Attach some of your created praise sty that would work on Psr E463