Genos and Competition ?

[beykock]

For the time being it looks like the Genos has only one  competitor : the Korg PA4X.
A Korg PA5X is not expected soon after Korg have presented the PA4X update recently.

Wersi and Ketron seem not to be very active to introduce new arranger keyboards soon.
Is it their intention to launch new highend arrangers during the Musikmesse 2019 ?

Babette

[Dromeus]

Is it their intention to launch new highend arrangers during the Musikmesse 2019 ?

Soon we will know.

[panos]

You forgot the Tyros 5, Babette.
It is still a compeditor of Genos.

[EileenL]

The flagship of arrangers is Genos and would not expect another top arranger for around another two years.

[DrakeM]

Let's remember one thing about the competition to the Yamaha brand:

There is NONE, when you factor in this FORUM and WEBSITE.

The PRSTUTORIAL site clearly puts the YAMAHA brand far above all the competition, they are not even CLOSE.

And if you are just going to "set and play" at your keyboard, then why in the heck would you purchase a top of the line keyboard? No matter what BRAND you choose, you will very soon get BORED with the limited set of STYLES that come with it.

If that is how you approach to using the keyboard, open up your wallet and purchase as many of them as you can afford to beat your style boredom issue.

btw .. I am thinking about bookmarking this reply for future use for when this question shows up again.

Regards
Drake

[EileenL]

Hi Drake,
I know many people that have bought Genos for a sit and play at home use. The styles are very good and adapt to lots of songs and of course all the other styles available sound great on this keyboard. No way would style boredom set in. Voices are great also and you can tweak away until you get the ones you prefer. Lots of nice features to. Would be very hard to get bored in any way.

[mikf]

I think that Drake is inferring that one of the great benefits of Yamaha keyboards is the access to many original and edited styles through this and other similar websites, and there is no doubt that is a big plus.  But everyone has different priorities. some people love to manipulate every feature to the nth degree. Access to lots of styles and song customized styles, and customized styles might be important to some, but other people maybe not nearly so much. Some may think the style editing is easier to do on a Korg, or Ketron or whatever. And some people may not even use a big variety of styles.
I don't have style boredom problems, because for me the backing is not a big deal, and at the top level, all the keyboards are good enough.
I have Yamaha, and it's a great keyboard. I have never owned Korg or Ketron, but those other keyboards remain successful in the market because they also have their strong points, and dedicated followers. I respect that, and I don't see anything wrong with discussion of what is happening in the market, or sensible discussion of various keyboards or shortcomings with Yamaha, as long as it doesn't descend into silly Yamaha bashing. For example, I have observed when trying out keyboards in a store, that Korg may be a little bit more user friendly in some regards. One little thing I saw immediately for example was that they have a simple selector for the fingering method. This means I can change back and forward between full keyboard, fingered or fingered on bass, whereas I have to dig into the menu to do that on Yamaha. I think this is something players might do frequently, I know I do.  Of course, someone will immediately point out I can do this easily on Yamaha by setting up registrations, but the point is that I don't need to do that on Korg, and it means I also don't have to have that registration bank sitting there all the time when I might want to use it for something else, like favorite voices. Or have to mark the bank so I remember which registration changes what. Another thing that struck me was that if I was gigging, the Korg seemed a bit easier to set up play lists.I don't have a Genos, but from what I understand, Genos has a moved a bit in this direction now, so that differentiator may have disappeared.
I am not trying to start a discussion or argument about how to do things on keyboards or who does what best, just making the point that we all view these things differently, depending on our background and needs.
A few individual features wasn't enough to convince me to change brands because the keyboard is a complete entity, and you weigh up everything, including the legacy issues,  Changing brands is work, so the payoff needs to justify it!
There are pros and cons with every keyboard at individual feature level. And everyone makes their choice. The point is that there is no definitive answer to what is best. Yamaha have a good product, and a great product family. But then so do Korg.
Mike

[DonM]

Well said Mike.  I don't want to get into this, but there are at least three good choices, as Ketron very recently introduced a new top of the line arranger, and a module for those that prefer using controller keyboard.  As always with them, it sounds fantastic, but support is really limited.
I also have a Roland EA7, not top of the line, but really really good for not much money.
I seldom touch my PSR anymore.
The Korg forum is quite helpful, but not as much a "family" as this one!  Ketron forum not much, but it is administered by the guy in charge in the U.S.

[beykock]

Being a real Yamaha arranger keyboard fan for so many years,
I am very happy and grateful we can talk about competitor products here.

IMHO it is very useful and important to know the arranger keyboards of Yamaha's competitors.

The more one knows about the competitor(s) products, the better one can understand why her/his Yamaha arranger is so good and where improvements are to be made, if possible and necessary.

For me a Yamaha arranger is the best choice.

I am so familiar with Yamaha's arrangers. For many reasons I am not interested in buying another brand.

For my personal applications a Yamaha arranger is the best electronic instrument : I love the sound, the plug-and-play operation, the very reliable technology and last but not least :
Yamaha's software.

Best regards, Babette

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Hi Drake,......The styles are very good and adapt to lots of songs and of course all the other styles available sound great on this keyboard. No way would style boredom set in. Voices are great also and you can tweak away until you get the ones you prefer.....

Thanks Eileen,  I feel the same.  I believe what people feel disappointed about is that we were made to believe YAMAHA cared about us who had bought the Genos and would fix the software inconsistencies that still exist.  Because they are  indeed minor it makes buyers sense  an attitude that is very common now-adays, and that irritates a clienteel that still remembers  times when a different attitude prevailed.

Just an example, I had a YAMAHA keyboard and wrote Rellingen, the melody harmonization for dim chords like needed in Moonlight serenade did not work in all fingering-inversions. They wrote me I was wrong.  I happened to go to the Frankfurt show for a client of mine and went to the YAMAHA stand, asked for the boss and showed him the problem.  He seemed genuinly surprised.  6 weeks later I got a nice letter saying, "Thanks you were  right"  and 8 weeks later the problem was solved.  In those days there were no software updates. They sent a new integrated circuit that could be inserted into a socket!

I also believe the  fact that Genos on this site was claimed to work perfectly even before update 1.30, which it  did not,  was detrimental to the purpose of this site,  which I perceive  as not only helping those who have bought but also make prospective byers choose the product.  As I have since Tyros One never bought but YAMAHA I am in no position to compare Genos with competing products that many on this site seem to be able to do.  I believe for many the question was not Genos or brand X, it was  wait a while,stay with Tyros,  or invest in Genos when it should not yet have been put on the market.


Cheers

Kaarlo   

[EileenL]

I think you will never get agreement on this forum as so many people want to use there keyboards in different ways and use different programmes to produce there music. Several other small forums bought Genos to play it as it is and are more than happy with it. A lot being home players who also do the occasional gig. Most of these members went from Tyros 5 to Genos and have not looked back. Mostly used for there own pleasure and they really do enjoy playing it and produce some very good music.

[DaveS]

I was initially looking to purchase a Korg PaX7-76, after having my TyrosII for ages, and it is showing its wear (screen faulty, mainly - I use a secondary VGA screen often used in photography - works great!).  But it was the familiarity with Yamaha that convinced me on the Genos, having also owned an original Tyros before that.  (Started off with a KN5000 then a Roland VA7).

I had listened to numeros PaX7 videos on the great sounds and all, and of course they are.  But it was the familiarity with the Yamaha "system" of things that made me stay.  Listening to the voices comparibly, I can't see much difference in sound (at least over YouTube - real time might be different).

After seeing all the positive comments on the Genos, I'm glad of my decision, and I thank you all for your contributions.

Cheers

Dave

[beykock]

Hi Dave :

I agree.
Once a Yamaha arranger keyboard player is used to work with Yamaha, it is not easy ( for so many reasons ) to go for another brand.

I think most Yamaha customers do love to upgrade but do not want to leave Yamaha.

I believe most Yamaha arranger players are very pleased and happy with their instrument.

That might be the reason why Yamaha's arranger keyboard division is so popular and became the market leader for almost 17 years now.

It all started with the sales of the Tyros1 in 2002 and Yamaha have no intention to give up their #1 market position in the ( near ) future, I guess.

Babette

[EileenL]

Hi Dave,
  I think to make true comparisons you have to sit and play each keyboard as it comes in the same environment. Also to try the operating systems and how easy it is for you to do the things you want.

[DaveS]

Possibly true, Eilieen, but what I did was watch umpteen videos on the PA4X as well as downloading the User Manual and having a good read through.  I have to admit, I was favourably impressed with the sounds and styles that were generated, but again the choice was to stick to Yamaha for the familiarity of everything.  The added memory registrations (now 10) was another factor that made up my decision.  Often times on the Tyros II, eight weren't quite enough for some situations.

I had done similarly with the Genos - watched many videos, downloaded the User & Reference manuals and read thoroughly - still do.  Yamaha was the overall winner.  I've seen the PA4X in action, and it is indeed a great instrument, but it's rather like the old Ford vs GM argument - to each his own, isn't it.

Regards

Dave

[Yinon]

The Pa4X is a great instrument!

Comparing the styles of the Genos and PA4x it is my opinon that the Genos Sytyles sound like a CD production while the Korg feels like a live band.
No good or bad - just what prerfer ....

The Genos acoustics sounds - are the best by far

Last - the Korg offers something Yamaha don't - "temp reset ...
This little button (On the Pa4X) allows you to reset the style to the first note of the bar no matter where you are in it.

So songs which are normally 4/4 and have only one bar of 3/4 could be easily plays (by resetting to the 1 on the specific bar).
With Genos - Yamaha finally offered the "half bar" break, but this is very tricky to operate, can be initiated only with a pedal and can only handle symmetric tempo.

Both great instruments! Both are highly recommended ...

[Bachus]

For the time being it looks like the Genos has only one  competitor : the Korg PA4X.
A Korg PA5X is not expected soon after Korg have presented the PA4X update recently.

Wersi and Ketron seem not to be very active to introduce new arranger keyboards soon.
Is it their intention to launch new highend arrangers during the Musikmesse 2019 ?

Babette

5 months after the last major pa3x update, the pa4x was released..
Better do some research before making bold statements 😜

And Ketron just launched their new flagship SD9 Pro last year...

Wersi OAX1 is a differnt thing, the way Wersi upgrades their quallity keys makes them have a lifespan of over a decade.. it uses the latest greatest pc hardware and vst technollogy...

And Roland left the high end arranger and workstation market so it seems

Korg is comming later this year with a new high end arranger for sure...


The real competition, will be some software based arrangers..
That will offer a lot of functionallity and integration..

[valimaties]

The Pa4X is a great instrument!

Comparing the styles of the Genos and PA4x it is my opinon that the Genos Sytyles sound like a CD production while the Korg feels like a live band.
No good or bad - just what prerfer ....

The Genos acoustics sounds - are the best by far

I totally agree...

Last - the Korg offers something Yamaha don't - "temp reset ...
This little button (On the Pa4X) allows you to reset the style to the first note of the bar no matter where you are in it.

So songs which are normally 4/4 and have only one bar of 3/4 could be easily plays (by resetting to the 1 on the specific bar).
With Genos - Yamaha finally offered the "half bar" break, but this is very tricky to operate, can be initiated only with a pedal and can only handle symmetric tempo.

Both great instruments! Both are highly recommended ...

This feature will be in the next update as an assignable function Stay tune

...
I think most Yamaha customers do love to upgrade but do not want to leave Yamaha.

I believe most Yamaha arranger players are very pleased and happy with their instrument.

I'm totally agree...

That might be the reason why Yamaha's arranger keyboard division is so popular and became the market leader for almost 17 years now.

It all started with the sales of the Tyros1 in 2002 and Yamaha have no intention to give up their #1 market position in the ( near ) future, I guess.

If you look on the internet, since Korg released PA3X it has some rewards of the best seller arranger In The World. So where is the truth? 
Every brand has claim itself as the best seller, or the leader off... It is a marketing thing to show entire world they are the best
Sincerely, counting how many videos there are on the youtube with Korg (Pa3X and PA4X) I think the number of arranger units sold are much bigger than Yamaha's T5 and Genos.
Counting on the field, I did not see lot of Genos on Romania, because of number of features that Korg implements in their arrangers (it's another discussion I saw on this site a lot of times which starts polemics ).

I preferred the sound of Yamaha as it is, with studio sound or CD sound, as Yinon said.
Even if I will buy a Pa4X (which I understood from real sources, is the last arranger from Korg PA series - BTW this is for Bachus ) I will continue to use Yamaha because of it's warm sound And if they implement missing things, there will be an almost perfect arranger for MY needs.

Regards,
Vali

[Bachus]

The Pa4X is a great instrument!

Comparing the styles of the Genos and PA4x it is my opinon that the Genos Sytyles sound like a CD production while the Korg feels like a live band.
No good or bad - just what prerfer ....

The Genos acoustics sounds - are the best by far

Last - the Korg offers something Yamaha don't - "temp reset ...
This little button (On the Pa4X) allows you to reset the style to the first note of the bar no matter where you are in it.

So songs which are normally 4/4 and have only one bar of 3/4 could be easily plays (by resetting to the 1 on the specific bar).
With Genos - Yamaha finally offered the "half bar" break, but this is very tricky to operate, can be initiated only with a pedal and can only handle symmetric tempo.

Both great instruments! Both are highly recommended ...

Back on the age old discussion Korg vs Yamaha styles..

They are diffent in nature, however, Its much easier to make a Genos style sound like a Korg style, then the other way around
Most of the time, you just need to mute some tracks, edit the drums, and change some volumes..

Where most Korg styles are much more basic.. thats what creates the live sound... but when you want to sound like yamaha... you often need to add more tracks.. which takes considerably more effort..



And while i can name a few functions on the PA4x, i can name more things on the Genos that are not on the Korg..
and what Korg can do, you in general can take care of programming performance memory banks on the Genos..
This is also where they are different in approach of user interface..
Om Yamaha you preprogram things and controll from the performance memmories..
Korg allows you to do much more things on the fly by direct controlls..
However, their preprogramming can't come close to the Genos.

[valimaties]

They are diffent in nature, however, Its much easier to make a Genos style sound like a Korg style, then the other way around
Most of the time, you just need to mute some tracks, edit the drums, and change some volumes..

Where most Korg styles are much more basic.. thats what creates the live sound... but when you want to sound like yamaha... you often need to add more tracks.. which takes considerably more effort..
...

What??!?!??!???!

Sorry man, you don't really know anything about Korg's Style engine, if you tell us this b...s....

A style on Korg is like a tree of subfolders... Which means, all those 6 chord variations are made by 8 tracks. Which means totally 48 tracks you can use to make a complex style, with different formulas for any of tracks in style. Practically, there are 6 styles with 8 channels in one! THIS will give you live sound. Using only one chord variation will give you a monotony in singing process. 
Yamaha uses maximum 16 channels in style, 8 which are visible for users even in Style Creator, and 8 which you can use them to create chord variations for different instruments in style, but not in keyboard, only on PC software (a minus). But you are limited by those 8 channels. And I tell you, in some conditions, you cannot do a lot of things only with those 8 channels.
Yes, using of registration memory you can make a lot of things which you can also do them on Korg, as you said by direct functions and by REAL TIME SAVING process, which Yamaha definitely has to implement. But let not start iterate on how many functions has one or another, because, definitely, Genos will lose  

Don't blame Korg, because you don't like it or you don't know more things about it... I don't blame Genos because has glitches and a lot of functions missing and you have to use a lot of PC software to make it sound better or to be able to use it as it has to be with the work made on it not on PC.

These keyboards are made by different guys, different minds for different type of people, which ACCEPT what they give, on both sides, Yamaha and Korg. Both of them are TOTL. Both of them are sold a lot. I don't know which one are best sold, I don't care. I know both of them and I know that what can you do on Korg you cannot do on Genos and vice versa... If I could, I would have bought both, because both of them are the best on the market.

EOD...

[Yinon]

I totally agree...

This feature will be in the next update as an assignable function Stay tune

I'm totally agree...

Vali -
Is this from a trusted source?
Don't play with my emotions man ...   

Thanks

[Bachus]

What??!?!??!???!

Sorry man, you don't really know anything about Korg's Style engine, if you tell us this b...s....

A style on Korg is like a tree of subfolders... Which means, all those 6 chord variations are made by 8 tracks. Which means totally 48 tracks you can use to make a complex style, with different formulas for any of tracks in style. Practically, there are 6 styles with 8 channels in one! THIS will give you live sound. Using only one chord variation will give you a monotony in singing process. 
Yamaha uses maximum 16 channels in style, 8 which are visible for users even in Style Creator, and 8 which you can use them to create chord variations for different instruments in style, but not in keyboard, only on PC software (a minus). But you are limited by those 8 channels. And I tell you, in some conditions, you cannot do a lot of things only with those 8 channels.
Yes, using of registration memory you can make a lot of things which you can also do them on Korg, as you said by direct functions and by REAL TIME SAVING process, which Yamaha definitely has to implement. But let not start iterate on how many functions has one or another, because, definitely, Genos will lose  

Don't blame Korg, because you don't like it or you don't know more things about it... I don't blame Genos because has glitches and a lot of functions missing and you have to use a lot of PC software to make it sound better or to be able to use it as it has to be with the work made on it not on PC.

These keyboards are made by different guys, different minds for different type of people, which ACCEPT what they give, on both sides, Yamaha and Korg. Both of them are TOTL. Both of them are sold a lot. I don't know which one are best sold, I don't care. I know both of them and I know that what can you do on Korg you cannot do on Genos and vice versa... If I could, I would have bought both, because both of them are the best on the market.

EOD...

I am not talking about the technical features of the korg styles
I am talking about the musical arrangements..

Isn't that where its all about.. the arrangements?  And not about the technical features?
Its how they are composed... the yamaha styles are busier.. and so cutting some parts, while boosting other parts make them feel and sound much more live...

And about the korg several variations in style stracks?
Did you ever research how many of your korg onboard styles use mre then 2 variatins?

[beykock]

Hi Guys,

After reading all these PA4X and Genos comments,
it sounds like one needs both arrangers to meet a perfect combination of features and sound ?

Babette

[valimaties]

No Bachus, it's not that! I disagree one more time and I tell you why!
Most of factory styles (Yamaha or Korg) meet only 8 channels (Yamaha) and only one CV on Korg, all 8, on both Y and K. Why does Korg seems more live but Yamaha don't? Yamaha uses a lot of DSPs as Hall, Delay, etc. These types of DSPs will rich frequency range, and in some cases it will do a lot of trouble instead of a good sound. This rich DSP sound is more like a studio sound, not a live band sound. Did you made any test with a spectral view of a song played with DSP active and with DSP inactive, to see the differences? (DSP - Hall, Delay.. not distortion, or compression, to be clear)

K uses its sound board on the main out with almost 10-20dB boost. It's a huge boost, but this gives the power in K sound.

Personally, I have eliminate entire the hall on drums or any other instrument that is part of beat. Brasses or pianos, or other instruments I write on PHR channels and PAD, I give them 10-20 units of custom hall DSP, edited on frequency, to meet only high frequency, because if it gives me hall on low frequency, will alter in the bad way the sound.

We do in almost every time our gigs in large rooms, restaurants or large ballrooms, with 200-300 peoples. In most of the cases the rooms already have a bit of hall in, or a delay on high notes, or a very bad acoustic for low frequencies. If I use DSP hall over room's hall, the people in that room will not hear clearly what I sing and the entire sound quality is a disaster.

Did you hear a live band? How many bands did you hear using DSPs on beat instruments (drums, bass, accompaniment guitars, etc) ? Yes, indeed, is good in small rooms, but will not give you sensation of a live band. If you close the eyes and hear the sound you will bet to a CD playing, not a real player! That's the sensation!

Regards
Vali

[beykock]

Hi Vali,

Thank you very much for sharing your gigging experiences.
Very interesting information.👌

IMHO Abby ( Pianoman ), one of the pro Genos giggers of this forum, is in the best position to comment your observations. I hope he does.😉

Best regards, Babette

[valimaties]

Hi Vali,

Thank you very much for sharing your gigging experiences.
Very interesting information.

IMHO Abby ( Pianoman ), one of the pro Genos giggers of this forum, is in the best position to comment your observations. I hope he does.

Best regards, Babette

Hi Babette.
Yes, indeed, Abby is a super-great player, a OMB. Is one of the top gig player I saw and hear.
It seems that some of genres require some DSP, indeed, but where, in live or on a CD?! These are my opinions concerning my band's sound and concerning other bands in my country and county ... Depends on a lot of factors to make your sound sounds like a live not like a CD sound. And of course, the PA system used for gigs is a second factor in live sound quality for a room/ballroom/restaurant.

I encountered, for example, a bad behavior of using Hall on drums and that is the reason I don't use it: the hall effect is propagate to Kick element of drum, too.. It's a very bad thing, because the kick has to be dry and very short, has to be like a short hit. And if you put the second DSP to drums, for example a compressor, the hall will be veeeery long. That's why Yamaha misses some functions like editing of drums in realtime, to be able to add or to remove DSPs to the drum elements, like Korg has a dedicated page for this, in realtime

Regards,
Vali

[Pianoman]

Personally, I have eliminate entire the hall on drums or any other instrument that is part of beat. Brasses or pianos, or other instruments I write on PHR channels and PAD, I give them 10-20 units of custom hall DSP, edited on frequency, to meet only high frequency, because if it gives me hall on low frequency, will alter in the bad way the sound.

We do in almost every time our gigs in large rooms, restaurants or large ballrooms, with 200-300 peoples. In most of the cases the rooms already have a bit of hall in, or a delay on high notes, or a very bad acoustic for low frequencies. If I use DSP hall over room's hall, the people in that room will not hear clearly what I sing and the entire sound quality is a disaster.

Did you hear a live band? How many bands did you hear using DSPs on beat instruments (drums, bass, accompaniment guitars, etc) ? Yes, indeed, is good in small rooms, but will not give you sensation of a live band. If you close the eyes and hear the sound you will bet to a CD playing, not a real player! That's the sensation!

Regards
Vali

Vali, I totally agree with your views regarding the overwhelming amount of DSP in
Yamaha's attempt to make the Genos sound rich.

As a Genos owner, and before that, when I conducted several testing sessions of this
instrument, I made my views about the Genos very clear in many previous posts, so I will
refrain from rehashing those views all over again, and concentrate on the subject of
DSPs.

I used to get annoyed in the late 70s and even till the present time when I heard crooners
(Especially European Schlager singers it seems) use so much echo and reverb in their vocals, thus
completely drowning what would otherwise be a good song, in DSP effects.

I have to give a special medal to my wife for her patience, for putting up with me whenever
I started freaking out over such DSP abuse.

The abundant use of and dependence on DSP effects in arrangers might be just dandy
for home users, but it isn't really helpful in live  playing.

As you have mentioned, when playing live, especially, indoors where most large halls
(and even some smaller ones) have a natural reverb, it is wise to turn down or even
completely turn off all DSP reverb and echo effects.

I too dial down the DSP effects from 64 down to 20 on most gigs, even when playing
outside, and sometimes them off completely.

Another thing to consider is muting all unnecessary channels or at least dialling them
down as much as possible.
Imagine your typical live band, it usually consists of 4 to 5 musicians.

Too many channels playing all at once end up irritating your audience, instead of
entertaining them.
Never apply overkill, it conjures up a "Canned Music" image that we all want to avoid.

I always ask myself when shopping, "do I really need this, or can I live without it?
That way I don't end up with a house full of unnecessary stuff.

I apply that same logic to many things, including when playing music. .

Last night I played outdoors, at a hotel whose 4 buildings are placed in a square
configuration.
And behind those buildings were residential apartments built on a hill.

Every word in my Microphone and every note that I played during my sound check
bounced back and repeated itself at least twofold because of that.

So I shut off all the reverb and echo on all instruments and the microphone.
That instantly gave me a better sound.

It is of course a matter of preference and sound perception, but for live playing less
is always more.

I remember reading somewhere, probably in a forum or maybe in my Yamaha EMX5016CF
mixer manual about effects that " If you can hear the effects, then you're probably using
too much already."

Below are pictures of last night's setup, to illustrate the buildings and how that may
affect verberations.

Best Regards.
Abby.

PS: I don't know why the pictures always upload sideways.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[beykock]

Hi Guys,

First of all I want to thank Abby for his input, time, answers, comments and pictures.
Great job !👍

Reading all this information and comments, I am confused though.😯

PLEASE HELP !

Does the Genos need a lot of tweaking to sound like a " live " band ?

I understand live audiance wants to hear " live " music and does not like ( too ) many effects, am I right ?

Does that mean an audiance prefers the PA4X sound ?

What about the Tyros sound ?

Plse advise. Thanks !

Best regards, Babette

[travlin-easy]

Unfortunately, there is no "One Size Fits All" when it comes to arranger keyboards. All of the TOTL boards have their strong points and weak points. For example, the Korg PA4X has hot drums in comparison to Yamaha's drums which are more CD or studio sounding. The PA4X drums are louder, and a bit more harsh, thus sound a bit more like a live drummer, but still not the same as a live drummer.

Korg also has a great vocal processor, while Yamaha's is good and can be tuned to sound nearly as good as Korg's sounds right out of the box. But, it takes a lot of work to achieve this, and most folks are not willing to spend that much time tuning their vocal processor, then saving all the information to a registration.

As for effects, every venue is different. Over the years, I think I had encountered every type of venue from something as small as a living room party to an outdoor concert, to performing inside a big-top tent that had rubberized canvas walls. Again, there is no "One Size Fits All" when it comes to effects as well. Some venues where there was lots of sound absorbing materials, carpeted floors, acoustic tile ceilings, soft wall coverings, effects were a necessity. Without a certain amount of reverb, your vocals and the keyboard would sound quite lifeless and flat.

That said, for five years I had my own band, a 5-piece country music group, consisting of a drummer, bass player, fiddle player and two guitar players, both of which were vocalists as well. We usually had a good time performing together, though when the free drinks began coming in from various audience members, timing would gradually worsen. By the end of the night, there were times when I wondered how the bass player could still stand upright. So, sounding like a live band is not always a great thing.

When I purchased my first arranger keyboard, which was made by the same folks that made my microwave oven, it had 12 styles and about 20 voices. I was ecstatic! I no longer had to worry about the bass player or the drummer getting out of time, the vibes and piano sounded great, and I didn't have to split the proceeds with 4 other band members. Sure, I missed performing with my friends, but for the first time in my entertainer career, I was able make a living - WOW!

As arranger keyboards progressed, there were massive strides in the overall improvements in sound quality and realism. Guitars, pianos, strings, etc... sound incredibly realistic. Keep in mind, though, that our audiences, obviously, knew it was just us on the stage, playing a keyboard/synth and singing. Some folks thought we were playing canned (pre-recorded) music, CDs, tapes, and singing along with it, while other skeptics even thought I was lip-syncing - LOL.

Unfortunately, very few audience members consider the amount of training, work, time and effort required in order to be an OMB entertainer and keep a dance floor filled. Our arranger keyboards are incredibly complex musical instruments, that in the right hands, sounds as good, or better than a full band. However, as I stated above, there is NO "One Size Fits All" when it comes to arranger keyboards, or for that matter, any other facet of music.

All the best,

Gary

[mikf]

What does a live band sound like?
Does it sound like The Rolling Stones.... or like Glenn Miller?
Like Queen ..... or Oscar Peterson ?
Like Mantovani.... or The Electric Light Orchestra?
Like a Korg PA4X .... or a Genos?
There is no definable 'live sound'. All these keyboards are great.
What we prefer is largely subjective.
Mike