User Memory Vs Usb Stick

[elad770]

I was trying to look for a definitive answer to this dilemma but couldn't so I decided to open up a new post. I hope it's OK

As I start to form my collection I was facing a dilemma: Where do I save all the files?

In the beginning, I saved everything to the user memory but when visiting a friend I found myself copying files to the USB stick only to find out that the registration is linking to a completely different location (Probably my user memory).

My question is: Why would I even bother saving anything to the 60gb user memory I have?

What will be the logic of doing that?

Why don't I create all the relevant folders in my memory stick: Registrations, Styles, Voices, Multipads etc and simply working with my 32gb exclusively?

Like that my registration file will always link and refer to the right files at the right location.

Can you share with me: Are you practicing one or the other and why?

[ryeager]

I found myself with the same angst in deciding.

I've had my genos for 3 months now.  So far I am saving everything but recorded audio files on USB sticks.

I backup my USB to a computer, which itself is backed up to another backup drive.

So my reasoning is that being able to backup my data is critical.  In case lightening hits my genos or maybe it crashes and destroys data, I will have my data backed up.

I haven't had any downsides to my strategy yet, USB is plenty fast for saving and loading registrations and midi.

Audio WAV files,on the other hand, are large and slow.  I just use USB to transfer them to my computer, where I then upload to an internet server.  Haven't explored yet if my mac can directly access data on the genos wirelessly, that would be sweet.

[Fred Smith]

I started out with everything on a USB, because that's how I transferred the files from my Tyros.

However, I quickly moved to using the User drive exclusively. To me, it's so much more convenient. And it's faster, which I like. I also like the fact that the (now misnamed) USB Storage Mode connects to the User drive.

By the way, when using your registrations on your friend's keyboard, they aren't connecting to your User drive, they're connecting to the User drive. Had you copied your folder(s) to the User drive, they would have worked.

Cheers,
Fred

[elad770]

That's my point

If you are afraid of the lightning strike why don't you save and work exclusively with the USB for ALL files? It's fast enough

and can be easily transferable to other keyboards (If you want). Also to Backup from Genos to USB is extremely slow whereas Simply backing up my USB to a computer is Super Fast.

Any advantages for saving ANY data into the user memeory?

[elad770]

I started out with everything on a USB, because that's how I transferred the files from my Tyros.

However, I quickly moved to using the User drive exclusively. To me, it's so much more convenient. And it's faster, which I like. I also like the fact that the (now misnamed) USB Storage Mode connects to the User drive.

By the way, when using your registrations on your friend's keyboard, they aren't connecting to your User drive, they're connecting to the User drive. Had you copied your folder(s) to the User drive, they would have worked.

Cheers,
Fred

That's my point. In order for the registration to work properly with ALL other files such as styles and registrations, i would need to copy the entire content which is more time and more confusion
If i keep everything on a USB drive the upon clicking on registration file in the USB it will look for Styles and Multipad that are in the USB and nowhere else. I don't know why this is not a good way of handling this?. Please challenge me because i would like to figure this out before i form my collection. I really don't want to switch methodologies back and forth

[Al Ram]

Why don't I create all the relevant folders in my memory stick: Registrations, Styles, Voices, Multipads etc and simply working with my 32gb exclusively?

Like that my registration file will always link and refer to the right files at the right location.

Can you share with me: Are you practicing one or the other and why?

That is exactly what I am doing.  Just like you described.   My USB drive has a folder each for Registrations, External Styles, etc.   I only use the Genos user memory for temp work if anything.

I find that the USB gives me a quicker way to transfer to another Genos if needed.  Access is quick.  When backing up I just copy the USB to my computer.  Easy.

I am sure the user memory has its advantages but for me the USB is the way.

Thanks

[Fred Smith]

That's my point

If you are afraid of the lightning strike why don't you save and work exclusively with the USB for ALL files? It's fast enough

and can be easily transferable to other keyboards (If you want). Also to Backup from Genos to USB is extremely slow whereas Simply backing up my USB to a computer is Super Fast.

Any advantages for saving ANY data into the user memeory?

Elad,

You asked what other people are doing. I answered your question. Why the pushback?

Cheers,
Fred

[Tyros5Mad]

There's a little thing called backup. If the USB stick breaks by being dropped or through some other problem then all your hard work is gone.

On the Genos, I think the user memory is 64Gb. That's huge for the tiny files we use.

So I have all the stuff I use for live songs on my user drive and extra stuff on my usb stick and computer. That gives me two backups.

Regards, Richard

[pfeuh]

Hello,

The usb key is the most user friendly way, but ... Too much files (even short ones) on it can slow up the Genos. Regarding some posts on forums, I've read that some bugs have been solve just in limiting the number of file on the usb key.

I'va also heard that professionals have the fear of being robbed of the key on stage (google translate from French. )

Like most of people, I use a usb key. As I dont use the keyboard on stage, I have no fear.

Regards,

Pfeuh

[reya]

Elad,

I had (still have) the same dilemma.
Coming from Tyros 5, and beeing used of the convenience of storing everything in the hard drive there, I opted for the same way of working on Genos.
So now I have to live with the fact that I have to copy things to friends Genos internal drives, when I want my registrations to work there. Which is not always easy as the folder structures I use and the one they use sometimes(mostly) confict.

I believe the cause of this inconvenience is a technical one.
In registration files, the full paths are stored to the different aspects used (the styles, the voices, the pads, .....) when playing.
example:
In registration file C:\folder\subfolder\registration file
link to the style is stored as :    C:\folder\subfolder\stylename used
link to the pad is stored as  :    C:\folder\subfolder\padname used
...
The problem comes from the fact that the drive letter is included in thatfull path link (in this example the C: drive). So when loading that registration file from a usb drive (say E:) Genos will look for style and pad on C: (which it will only find on that drive on your Genos and not on your friends ....)

An easy solution would probably be for Yamaha to use the drive name the registration file was started from for locating those styles, pads .... in stead of the one hardcoded in the link.
As a result, when copying everything to a usb, plugging that in a friends Genos and loading a registration file from that usb drive (which coud be named E: drive there), Genos would look for the style in the same drive the registration file was started from. So because the registration file was loaded from drive E: it would now look in E:\folder\subfolder\ (in stead of in C:\folder\subfolder\) and it would find it there.

There's been some rumours about a firmware update lately ..... who knows .....

If I remember well, things do work ok, as long as one is only using preset Genos, styles, pads. The problems only start when using aspects stored in the user area.

Rudy

[keyplayer]

I always save to USB so that all my files are transferable to another keyboard and files are still linked. I only use the user drive for temporary work. I also back up the USB onto a 2nd USB.
My thoughts are that if I turn on the keyboard one day and it no longer works for whatever reason at least I haven't lost all those long hours of creating voices, styles and registrations.
Pam

[DerekA]

The main use for the internal storage (whatever it is on Genos- I'll just call it a disk because it doesn't really matter, hard disk on Tyros) is for audio wave files.

Personally I think that the reason there is a large internal storage in the keyboards is a legacy from the past. Before USB was commonplace, we only had floppy disks. Then USB and large capacity disks evolved almost in parallel. Manufacturers have given you both USB and internal disks just because they can - disks are relatively cheap and can be listed on specification sheets as a feature.

It would not surprise me if in the future the internal storage disappeared completely. As people are saying, they are not really sure why they would use it in preference to a USB.

[ryeager]

One possible downside I just thought of, is that my USB plugin on top of the genos is starting to get finicky...sometimes a slight wiggle of the USB stick causes the genos to think it is unplugged.

I'm always as careful as I can be with it, but I'm starting to worry that the USB plugin on top of my genos might fail from usage.  I don't even plug/unplug USB sticks all that frequently.  Maybe I just got a factory lemon.

[rbackes]

Hi,

I use the USB stick nearly exclusive, too. From time to time I plug it into my computer and save the whole stick to my network (from where it is backed up to tape).

I have a Kingston 128 GB stick at the upper port of my Genos (play it at home, not for gigs). At the keyboard stand, I have a little Intel NUC (4GB RAM, 128 GB SSD, Win 10)  attached, which drives the two 24" Monitors for displaying the score (Mobile Sheets Pro) and recording audio.

Rainer

[elad770]

Hi,

I use the USB stick nearly exclusive, too. From time to time I plug it into my computer and save the whole stick to my network (from where it is backed up to tape).

I have a Kingston 128 GB stick at the upper port of my Genos (play it at home, not for gigs). At the keyboard stand, I have a little Intel NUC (4GB RAM, 128 GB SSD, Win 10)  attached, which drives the two 24" Monitors for displaying the score (Mobile Sheets Pro) and recording audio.

Rainer

Can I ask how do you use 128gb? I thought the capacity for USB sticks is 32gb?

[EileenL]

You can use very large capacity USB sticks. I have a 64 Gb in the underside of my Genos.
I use my user section as I did a Hard Drive. Every thing has been saved to it and relinked with styles where necessary. It dose not take that long. On my Usb stick I have the extra playlist that I downloaded from Yamaha. They need to be on the stick that reads USB 1 on the keyboard and in my case that is the one I have locked underneath. I also have a copy of all that is on my User so that from time to time I can removed it and back it up to my computer. Other sticks I may use to transfer things are always removed before switch off so that my underside USB always reads USB 1 on switch on and this is important. Why keep plugging sticks in and out creating wear and tear on the connections.
  Use the user drive as that is what it is for.

[Lee Batchelor]

I think the method you use depends on how you use your Genos. I play out quite often so I store everything on the internal drive, but make backups to a USB drive. The USB drive comes to the show with me. I would hate to rely 100 percent on a USB drive for playing out. If it gets lost or damaged....

[Keynote31]

I had a similar problem with T5, I have a T5 76note at home and play for our social club which has a 61 note T5!, it took me quite a while to figure out why my USB key (prepared at home) wouldn't load on the T5 in our club, then it realised that when saving registrations it calls up the style from a location on the board, (user,hard drive or preset) Finally solved the problem by saving both the registration and the style to usb...problem solved. Now I can prepare my USB key at home and use it in the club. As I no longer gig with my T5 I don't use the user memory except for developing a registration,after which I transfer it to the USB key.i always have a backup USB key in my pocket....just in case!!!

[porterma]

On a closely related topic...
I am just about to get a new Genos after having sold my Tyros 4.
I always used a USB 2.0 with my Tyros because someone told me that it worked better with the Tyros system.
What type of USB are people using with their Genos  -  2.0, 3.0, 3.1

Thanks,

Mark

[Lee Batchelor]

it took me quite a while to figure out why my USB key (prepared at home) wouldn't load on the T5 in our club, then it realized that when saving registrations it calls up the style from a location on the board

I think this is one of the least understood concepts about all arrangers. Registrations contain no Styles, Multipads, or Voices. A registration simply points to all that stuff on your keyboard, not somebody else's.

It's just like the major misconception about MIDI. MIDI data is absolutely dead quiet. It simply points to and activates things that can be heard.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
I save all my music lock stock and barrel to a USB drive 500gig or a terrabyte drive. WD Passports are great
Also I save all my work on computer and then take a Windows image
That way if your computer goes west you can load your image up to new computer.
Use your USB sticks for the back and forward jobs. Also you have a port underneath that can store a hefty amount on a USB stick.

Anyone using VST and the likes of Sampletank Max  and others, Make an Image file of the lot as it will save you heartbreak

All te best
john

[Afton72]

Hi All,       I have always believed that the USER on any model Yamaha keyboard arranger would be wiped clean if a System reset was needed. So I have never stored anything there except for tempory use.

Here I often read how a lot of people, even  some experts use it as main storage.

   Which is correct?

                  Cheers,       Alan.

[Lee Batchelor]

Agreed Alan, however, Yamaha put it there for a reason. The USER memory is my main stage storage for all things on the Genos, with one condition - regular backups. Otherwise, why is the USER memory there?

[elad770]

Guys,  thank you so much for all your input
I'm so blessed to be part of this forum

I think USB stick is the way to go for me
I have a wishful answer as to why Yamaha would have
60gb of User memory: Because maybe one day they will allocate all this memory as the RAM memory allowing
Us to install 60gb worth of Expansion packs!

[Tyros5Mad]

Whichever way folks choose to go, it does not really matter. Just be sure to make regular copies otherwise you will be crying

Regards, Richard

[motekmusic]

You can use very large capacity USB sticks. I have a 64 Gb in the underside of my Genos.
I use my user section as I did a Hard Drive. Every thing has been saved to it and relinked with styles where necessary. It dose not take that long. On my Usb stick I have the extra playlist that I downloaded from Yamaha. They need to be on the stick that reads USB 1 on the keyboard and in my case that is the one I have locked underneath. I also have a copy of all that is on my User so that from time to time I can removed it and back it up to my computer. Other sticks I may use to transfer things are always removed before switch off so that my underside USB always reads USB 1 on switch on and this is important. Why keep plugging sticks in and out creating wear and tear on the connections.
  Use the user drive as that is what it is for.

Hi.

I had a tyros 5 which had 500 gb(?) user space hard drive.   Now i have the Genos and want to know how BIG capacity (gb)
in that user.?
I do have USB sticks ranging from   2 to 32 which of course is adequate to store infinimum amount of data but i was spoiled
with that tyros hard drive user space  .   (yes, whatever was on the user i did have on usb sticks anyway and already 2 are connected.)
The user area is so much easier to use and already am keeping my midi file songs there.   Also storing fav. styles etc. but want
to put more stuff in.
Appreciate how far can go with that user....
thanks


cheers
elaine

[Stijn]

Hi Elaine,

The User Drive has about 58 Gb of space.
It is an SSD drive (Solid State Drive). It is like a hard disk but without moving mechanical components - only integrated circuit assemblies.
They are is much faster than the old hard disks, and much faster than flash drives as well. They are more reliable, too.

Stijn

[motekmusic]

Hi Elaine,

The User Drive has about 58 Gb of space.
It is an SSD drive (Solid State Drive). It is like a hard disk but without moving mechanical components - only integrated circuit assemblies.
They are is much faster than the old hard disks, and much faster than flash drives as well. They are more reliable, too.

Stijn

Thanks so  much Stijn,
Now have plenty of space to stash some style files and whatnot.   Am delighted.


cheers
elaine

[pjd]

I have a wishful answer as to why Yamaha would have
60gb of User memory: Because maybe one day they will allocate all this memory as the RAM memory allowing
Us to install 60gb worth of Expansion packs!

Hi --

Unfortunately, the Genos Internal Memory ("Approx 58GB)") is physically separate from the expansion memory ("1.8GB") which is used to store waveforms (AKA "samples"). So, things will remain wishful. 

The Internal Memory resides in a 64GB eMMC solid state device. Genos runs Linux (Debian) and the OS takes up space in the eMMC storage device. That's why Yamaha specs say "Approx 58GB".

The waveforms reside in 2GB of NAND flash (1GB high + 1 GB low). Bookkeeping and meta-data take up the 0.2GB that we don't get.

Usage-wise, I keep everything in Internal Memory and back up to USB flash. That works OK for me since I don't need to move my set-up to another Genos.

All the best -- pj