Genos registration numbers fading away !!!!!!

[Lee Batchelor]

Al, have you performed a complete system backup before sending the Genos away for multiple sleep-overs in someone's shop?

[Al Ram]

Al, have you performed a complete system backup before sending the Genos away for multiple sleep-overs in someone's shop?

Lee

thanks.  Smart question.   Not sure if i did a complete backup.  Certainly copied to USB all my important stuff such as registrations, external styles, etc.

thanks.

[panos]

Just saw this topic.
A two year guarantee in European Union is by law.
It's not up to the seller to give lesser guarantee if he wants to sell something in EU.
If he doesn't trust his own product's reliability better don't bother to produce it at all.
Also the guarantee in EU starts from the day you have received the product and not from the time you ordered or paid for it.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/faq/index_en.htm

When I replaced my psr's main buttons few months ago because I was cleaning my keyboard with a common glass cleaning product ,
the repairer first ordered the buttons and when they arrived he asked for the keyboard to replace them.
It took him one day.The next day the keyboard was at my home again.

Is there a reason why they need to keep the keyboard until the new buttons arrive?

If you had a faulty mp3 player on your new car would you take it to the repαιr shop and leave it there for a month until the new mp3 player arrives and they find the time to fix it?

Why they should keep the keyboard for a few weeks?
Sorry but I don't understand.

Certainly the fade away is not your fault.
Everyone can understand that numbers 1-4 are most commonly used than numbers 5-10.

By the way
3.800 euros for Genos in Greece.
If a dealer has a higher price so he can make the buyer feel happy for buying something 30% off the initial price,
he won't see any client because the rest of the dealers allready sell at the real (lower) price.

[Toril S]

Hello AL. I will follow this with suspense. My repair story did not go well, the keyboard was damaged in transport, and the whole process took 4 (!) months! But, in the end, Yamaha gave me a new unit. Good luck! Keep us posted.

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi
If your letters are fading on the Genos ,Try French letters they have better protection.

[Toril S]

And why is that?😀😀😅

[Al Ram]

Hello Friends

An update.   If you recall from this post.   Some numbers on Genos registration buttons were fading away.

The Genos warranty is one year in USA which is kind of the norm over here.   I contacted Yamaha a few days before the warranty expired.  They approved the replacement, however, i could not part with Genos for certain dates because commitments already made. 

Yamaha graciously extended my warranty another 90 days.   They provided me with names of authorized shops in my area.  The buttons have been replaced for free. I have been testing the keyboard and everything seems good.

Just want to mention that in this particular case, Yamaha came thru with outstanding customer service.   

This is like the third time i deal with Yamaha on repair or replacements and they are ALWAYS excellent (in my experience, they have been extremely customer oriented)

THANKS YAMAHA

You all have a great day.

[Toril S]

I love happy endings!😀😀😀

[EB5AGV]

Great news!. Let's hope this fading problem is an isolated case 

[Lee Batchelor]

This is like the third time i deal with Yamaha on repair or replacements and they are ALWAYS excellent (in my experience, they have been extremely customer oriented)

Despite the fact I hate some of the Genos design ideas (non-alphabetical lists to name one!), Yamaha has always been quick to fix problems on an individual basis. I had a flaw on the surface of my Genos, and Yamaha immediately gave me a refund for the damage. Reason: Genos was so much in demand at the time, it would have taken 6 months to get a replacement in Canada and they didn't want to swap out a 6 month old, gigging Genos for a new one. Their monetary compensation was very generous, so I accepted it.

[Toril S]

Yes, and Yamaha gave me a new S975 after my S970 was damaged in transport to the repair shop! Yamaha forever!

[Pianoman]

Overhere in Holland you can find them as low as €3500 after some bargaining..
Official price has not changed however.. 
but you can find online prices as low as 3799

I bought mine for €3200.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[elad770]

Hi John,

Is the unit Genos price of $5000 still valid ?
It looks like the present price has been decreased, right ?

Happy New Year !

Babette

I purchased my Genos 5 Months ago:

- Genos
- Genos Stand
- Genos Speakers
- Genos Pedal
+ Free Shipping
------------------------
4100$

Not Bad i would say........

[Al Ram]

I purchased my Genos 5 Months ago:

- Genos
- Genos Stand
- Genos Speakers
- Genos Pedal
+ Free Shipping
------------------------
4100$

Not Bad i would say........

Elad

is that US dollars ? 

thanks

[elad770]

Yes, This is US Dollar!
Got it from an Authorized Yamaha Dealer!

[travlin-easy]

From what I could see in the photos, this is a wear problem, which is not at all unusual with this type of surface printing. I had the same problem with my laptop keys and after a couple years, I could not see the letters printed on the keys at all. Fortunately, I am a touch typist, therefore I had no problems not being able to see the imprinted letters on the keys.

Most of the tyros keyboards had the letters/numbers imprinted beneath a surface layer of clear plastic, therefore, it was impossible to wear the lettering off the keys. Someone at Yamaha engineering made a mistake by allowing surface labeling on those switches.

Don Mason is correct in his assessment of Yamaha in that they are a very reputable company that takes care of it's customers, often well beyond the normal warranty period. The PSR 900 is a great example of this.

Good luck,

Gary

[Lee Batchelor]

Someone at Yamaha engineering made a mistake by allowing surface labeling on those switches.

Sadly, we have finally reached an era where even the Japanese companies are on a quest for bigger profits. We Baby Boomers and those born a few years before were raised on Japanese quality that no one on the planet could compete with. Now, those same companies (Yamaha, Honda) are engaged in cost cutting measures. My 2018 Honda Odyssey is 100 percent American designed and built - and it shows. Sad to see, really.

The saving grace is, Yamaha has left the important stuff (sounds and rhythms) in the hands of their own engineers. The day they farm that out off shore, will be the day I give up music .

[Pianoman]

The saving grace is, Yamaha has left the important stuff (sounds and rhythms) in the hands of their own engineers. The day they farm that out off shore, will be the day I give up music .

Don't give up music Lee.
Just shop around for something different, if that were to happen.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[elad770]

Sadly, we have finally reached an era where even the Japanese companies are on a quest for bigger profits. We Baby Boomers and those born a few years before were raised on Japanese quality that no one on the planet could compete with. Now, those same companies (Yamaha, Honda) are engaged in cost cutting measures. My 2018 Honda Odyssey is 100 percent American designed and built - and it shows. Sad to see, really.

The saving grace is, Yamaha has left the important stuff (sounds and rhythms) in the hands of their own engineers. The day they farm that out off shore, will be the day I give up music .

I didn't understand what you were saying here but i think you are being a bit dramatic. Genos is a tool that provides you with basically Limitless! options to create basically everything you want!
I simply don't understand what does it mean: Yamaha Left the important stuff? It's such an empty statement. Yamaha is an evolving company like every other company in the planet. At the end of the day you should judge by the quality of the product that you recieved and it's the best money can buy!

[Al Ram]

I purchased my Genos 5 Months ago:

- Genos
- Genos Stand
- Genos Speakers
- Genos Pedal
+ Free Shipping
------------------------
4100$

Not Bad i would say........

Elad,
Not bad ?

Best price i have seen . . . .  specially for including accesories and speakers . . . wow.   !!!!

I paid $4,125 for the keyboard only, i thought i had the best price.  Your price beats all i think . . . .

Congrats.

[BogdanH]

We're only sharing opinions, right? In that sense, everyone has it's own and is right. Because we all have different measures, needs and expectations.
Saying that, I must say I'm with Lee on that. My interest on hi-quality audio dates back to early 80's, when names Akai, Sansui, Nakamichi, JVC Technics, Sony, etc. were synonyms for "the best". How many of those offer something worth to consider nowaday? None! All of them ceased to exist shortly after they started to make cheapo (no innovations, plastic & rubber, etc.) products. Consumers aren't really that dumb -we do sense when someone is just trying to pull money from our wallet... sooner or later. Right now, my confidence in "Made in Japan" isn't that high anymore -most parts (or even complete products) are made outside Japan anyway.
Back to topic... in my opinion, there's no excuse for $4000€ product for such thing to happen (fading symbols on keys) -no matter how "friendly" service department is after the fact. For comparison sake: I have about 5 years old $10€ PC keyboard (heavy used!) made in China and it still looks and works as new. Prints on plastic isn't some rocket science -only basic quality required.
I don't wish to compare Yamaha keyboard with other (only few existing) brands. Having PSR-S775, I'm very happy camper:
-excellent price/performance ratio
-excellent ease of use (arranging)
-sound/voice quality is on par or better than other brands offer in similar price category
-panel buttons made of rubber... what can I say... feels cheapo.. for $1000€...
Yes, I would recommend S775 anytime.

[elad770]

We're only sharing opinions, right? In that sense, everyone has it's own and is right. Because we all have different measures, needs and expectations.
Saying that, I must say I'm with Lee on that. My interest on hi-quality audio dates back to early 80's, when names Akai, Sansui, Nakamichi, JVC Technics, Sony, etc. were synonyms for "the best". How many of those offer something worth to consider nowaday? None! All of them ceased to exist shortly after they started to make cheapo (no innovations, plastic & rubber, etc.) products. Consumers aren't really that dumb -we do sense when someone is just trying to pull money from our wallet... sooner or later. Right now, my confidence in "Made in Japan" isn't that high anymore -most parts (or even complete products) are made outside Japan anyway.
Back to topic... in my opinion, there's no excuse for $4000€ product for such thing to happen (fading symbols on keys) -no matter how "friendly" service department is after the fact. For comparison sake: I have about 5 years old $10€ PC keyboard (heavy used!) made in China, and it still looks and works as new. Prints on plastic isn't some rocket science -only basic quality required.
I don't wish to compare Yamaha keyboard with other (only a few existing) brands. Having PSR-S775, I'm very happy camper:
-excellent price/performance ratio
-excellent ease of use (arranging)
-sound/voice quality is on par or better than other brands offer in similar price category
-panel buttons made of rubber... what can I say... feels cheapo.. for $1000€...
Yes, I would recommend S775 anytime.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion and nobody makes personal criticism on your opinion. I onl have a problem with lack of specificity. To say something isn't good without specifying what is it that makes it not good is not serious and not convincing as for Yamaha. If there's one thing you can say about Yamaha keyboards is that they Last for a long, long time and from what I see people selling Tyroses all over, it doesn't even depreciate much which is incredible and only makes my point.
You don't know how the knobs were used and this can happen for many reasons. Yes! There's a need to conserve on material quality to allow other advancment to take place like for example the fact that the Genos is the BEST arranger out there. So, if you are a CEO and would like to use resources properly you can either decide that the Genos will be plastic and not Gold so other resources will be invested in user fridley interface which takes years and millinons of dollars to develop. Also, the s775 is an instrument that has SPEAKERS ON BOARD. Rubber buttons is almost a most if you don't want buzzing sounds coming from plastic. Genos is a professional arranger that doesn't have a speaker on board thus plastic is the right way to go. Finally, considering that we are humans and companies thrive on correcting mistakes, the fact that Yamaha is a customer friendly company is SUPER important and more important than the investment itself. The understanding that the company is behind the customer worth everything for the consumer! i wouldn't dismiss that.
As i mentioned above i got an amazing Genos package for 4100$ I could have gotten the Genos for 3500$ Brand new. Could i have paid 6000$ ? Yes. It's available for 7000$ too if you are willing to pay

an instrument that gives you so much for 3500$? absolutely worth it! You think that in a few years you are not going to see wear in ANY instrument or material exist on this planet you are wrong
You said: Nobody makes such and such anymore. Yes, becasue times have changed. If you want to buy vintage stuff or anything else it's available for you.

[Lee Batchelor]

Elad770 - Tyros was at the top of the heap in its day. It had non-fading buttons. It also cost millions to develop from the PSR series. Yamaha made good coin on its sale over the years (I assume) and without sacrificing build quality. You wanted specifics? There you go .

[Pianoman]

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion and nobody makes personal criticism on your opinion. I onl have a problem with lack of specificity. To say something isn't good without specifying what is it that makes it not good is not serious and not convincing as for Yamaha. If there's one thing you can say about Yamaha keyboards is that they Last for a long, long time and from what I see people selling Tyroses all over, it doesn't even depreciate much which is incredible and only makes my point.
You don't know how the knobs were used and this can happen for many reasons. Yes! There's a need to conserve on material quality to allow other advancment to take place like for example the fact that the Genos is the BEST arranger out there. So, if you are a CEO and would like to use resources properly you can either decide that the Genos will be plastic and not Gold so other resources will be invested in user fridley interface which takes years and millinons of dollars to develop. Also, the s775 is an instrument that has SPEAKERS ON BOARD. Rubber buttons is almost a most if you don't want buzzing sounds coming from plastic. Genos is a professional arranger that doesn't have a speaker on board thus plastic is the right way to go. Finally, considering that we are humans and companies thrive on correcting mistakes, the fact that Yamaha is a customer friendly company is SUPER important and more important than the investment itself. The understanding that the company is behind the customer worth everything for the consumer! i wouldn't dismiss that.
As i mentioned above i got an amazing Genos package for 4100$ I could have gotten the Genos for 3500$ Brand new. Could i have paid 6000$ ? Yes. It's available for 7000$ too if you are willing to pay

an instrument that gives you so much for 3500$? absolutely worth it! You think that in a few years you are not going to see wear in ANY instrument or material exist on this planet you are wrong
You said: Nobody makes such and such anymore. Yes, becasue times have changed. If you want to buy vintage stuff or anything else it's available for you.

Wow!

[BogdanH]

Just to clarify

..the s775 is an instrument that has SPEAKERS ON BOARD. Rubber buttons is almost a most if you don't want buzzing sounds coming from plastic....

I (still) have S670, which has real "click" buttons -never heard they would "generate" some sound.

..If you want to buy vintage stuff..

I'm not after vintage.. I wish better. But that's not the point why I mentioned "old days"... message was: after they started delivering questionable quality, they've disappeared from market.

I think, it's important for me to say, I don't think Genos is not good keyboard overall -far from that! I still believe it's a technical gem.

Wish great day to you all

[Toril S]

Keeping letters underneath the buttons as on the Tyros is great.
My 2100 have smooth plastic buttons, stable, easy to find, and they don't make vibrating sound. I had a hard tome adjusting to the PSR S970/75's rubber buttons. I think they imagine them to be more comfortable, but I don't agree. BUT, the world is not perfect. All in all I am very happy with my Yamaha products: I have 4 keyboards and a piano from the company!

[Ingar]

Hello Friends

I just noticed that some numbers on the registration buttons are fading away, specially numbers from 1 to 4.   It is not even a year !    anyway . . . . anyone noticing the same ?  I do not know why.   i guess mostly use . . . . i always have my hands clean when playing, so, it is not because of dirt or sweat or anything like that.   

Is there an easy way to replace them ?  I do not use the OTS buttons and the numbers on those are pretty good.   would it be easy to exchange them ?    Only problem is that eventually those numbers will also fade away  . . . .

Any way to re-paint them ?

Any suggestions/Comments are appreciated.

thanks in advance.

The figures are screen printed. The knobs are made of plastic and the quality of the ink and the pretreatment of the plastic is very important for a durable result. I have been working with screen printing for many years and know most about the type of problem. It is the printing company that has made a mistake and the guarantee applies of course

[charlie]

The $5K is the MSRP.  Most people did not paid that price but got better pricing from good dealers.

I contacted my dealer about the registration buttons problem (numbers fading away) he said i need to contact Yamaha directly to start the warranty process. 

I called yesterday but Yamaha was on vacation.  Will try again tomorrow Wednesday 

Yes. i liked the T4 and T5 registration buttons where the number was inside.

thank you all.

Yamaha should see to this problem. DO NOT MESS ABOUT WITH IT!!!

[Rien5]

Unfortunately I have a similar problem with fading "Song" button on my Genos (end 2017).

[attachment deleted by admin]

[EB5AGV]

I am beginning to see a "Genos LABELGATE" around the corner 

As an electronics equipment repairer, I have seen similar kind of quality problems on expensive amateur radio gear, as the fading OLED displays on the Yaesu FTdx-5000, which was about the price of a Genos (even a tad more) when new. On that case, the manufacturer, Yaesu (which is also japanese) has offered for years (the model was launched on 2010) new updated displays for free (a total value of about 120 EUR, there are three units), but the owner should pay for the labour if the unit is over the 2-year (in EU) warranty period.

So, how that could appy to this case?. There are plenty of similarly labelled buttons on the Genos. And, sadly, if this is a problem with the printing process and/or materials used, all of them are equally prone to fade. Of course, most used buttons will fade first, as we are seeing. I guess that Yamaha (its suppliers really) would find another more durable way to print the labels and then replace them on new manufactured units and offer a new keyset to other owners, which would be installed for free if under warranty and for the cost of the labour if not.

What Yamaha should avoid is to let current Genos users down with fading key labels and no solution. That would hurt model sales and Yamaha brand image quite a bit, IMHO.

Jose