S670: How to record short repeatable sequences?

[2112]

In my association, for the past several years, with the Casio CTK/WK Arranger Workstations, over on the Casio Forums,  I have seen this same question come up time and time again

How about the "Phrase Pads" feature of the new CT-X3000/CT-X5000 models? It seems like it would meet the needs of the original poster.

Certainly they are much cheaper than the Tyros/Genos or Korg PA boxes.

[pjd]

Hi Roy and Panos --

Great discussion, BTW!

Yamaha introduced "DJ Styles" into some of the recent models. Since we're discussing the PSR-S670, here's a quote from the PSR-S670 Owner's Manual (page 46):

"DJ Styles: These Styles can be selected from the category called up via the [Dance & R&B] button. These contain their own special chord progressions, so you can add chord changes to your performance simply by changing the root key. Keep in mind, however, that you cannot specify the chord type, such as major and minor, when using the DJ Styles."

On the E443, DJ Styles are called "Patterns". Yamaha seems to use different names on different products just to drive us crazy. :-)

If you play a DJ Style, you can hear ("cooked in", pre-defined) chord changes like "Em Dm A" or whatever, assuming in this case, that E is the chord root key.

Panos is correct -- the CASM programming is the same as fully orchestrated introductions and endings with built-in chord changes. In the case of a DJ Style, the MAIN sections are programmed (NTR/NTT) in the same way as elaborate INTROs and ENDINGs are programmed.

I think Panos and I differ here: NTR=ROOT TRANS (Root Transpose) and NTT=BYPASS. BYPASS plus ROOT TRANS maintains the pitch relationship between the notes.

If anyone wants to deep dive this subject, please check out:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/free-djx-ii-styles-for-psr/
http://sandsoftwaresound.net/mining-the-yamaha-djx-ii/

Hope this helps -- pj

[panos]

You are absolutely right Roy about how easy or not it is to do what we want sometimes.
We just having a discussion and search for solutions not for just our friend but everyone else and sometimes we get down to technical problems to see how and if something can be done or not.
Tom is familiar with ableton live so I guess he spent 95% of his time equalizing/mixing  etc rather than finding chord sequences.

Pjd, I haven't spent that much time yet on parameters,I just gave a simple kind of example.
We are lucky on his forum that we have people like you and many others that help us with their knowledge.
Before I join the forum a year ago I didn't mess up with that style creator thing on my keyboard.

Roy, Ctk may have that feature but it depends how much important is to our friend this function because ctks and psr E series is a category behind the per s series and I am talking basicaly about the overal keyboard sound.
Not to mention how many styles have the option to play and find compare to s670 if he buys something that have limitation on styles.
Just my thoughts,don't have to be the right one in any case

[pjd]

Here's a demo "loop style" for jazzers.

I started off with a 16 bar MIDI loop. The first eight bars are Dmin7 and the second 8 bars are Cmin7.

There are five style parts:

Channel  Instrument  C.Root  C.Type
-------  ----------  ------  ------
   10      Drum         C     maj7   ROOT FIXED  BYPASS
   11      Bass         D     min7   ROOT TRANS  BYPASS
   12      Guitar       D     min7   ROOT TRANS  BYPASS
   13      EPiano       D     min7   ROOT TRANS  BYPASS
   14      Pad          D     min7   ROOT TRANS  BYPASS

The chord type will be ignored because chord type conversion is bypassed. Only the chord root note (D) is significant.

The style contains only one section: MAIN A. The key that is played in the accompany zone (left hand) determines the new root note. Play D and the chord progression starts with Dmin7. Play E and the chord progression starts with Emin7, etc.

Please feel free to edit. I think this is the simplest possible style, technically. 

All the best -- pj

P.S. This isn't meant to be great music...


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[pjd]

Hi folks --

I get what you're saying, Roy. There should be an easier path and maybe creating a loop style, DJ style or whatever is too much effort or complication. Granted.

That said, I knocked out the demo loop in about an hour. Most of that time was spent making the MIDI file, i.e., finding MIDI phrases that fit together in some musical way. I made the MIDI file in SONAR, including the three markers needed for a minimal style, GM reset and XG reset. Then, I used Jorgen's CASM editor to add the NTR/NTT info. The actual style creation part of the job took 10 minutes once I had an acceptable MIDI loop with parts.

BTW, I'm not going to underestimate Tom. In one of his experiments (posts), he started out with a MIDI loop produced in Ableton Live. In his first post, he has even created voices for the S670 using YEM. Sounds like an adventurous dude. 

Whether this is the appropriate approach for someone or not, all I can do is create opportunities for other Forum members.

Hey, hey, have a good weekend, folks! Don't forget to play!

-- pj

[panos]

Roy don't get me wrong.
I am terribly sorry if my posts gives you the idea that I argue with you,or PJD,or SeaGtGruff or Tyrosaurus....
Maybe is my bad english...piffff
It is just that everyone of us see things in a different way and just saying his opinion.
Your opinion and everyone else's opinion and experience matters to me and make me see things from another prospective which i might haven't thought.

[pjd]

Your opinion and everyone else's opinion and experience matters to me and make me see things from another prospective which i might haven't thought.

Hi Panos -- That spirit comes through in your posts. We all learn from you, too. Thanks! -- pj

[tomsixtwo]

Tom is familiar with ableton live so I guess he spent 95% of his time equalizing/mixing  etc rather than finding chord sequences.

What leads you to this assumption?

The creative tasks interest me much more than doing mixer and EQ settings. Discovering new chord sequences and melodies, creating sounds, etc. This can also be done in Ableton. You're not necessarily a nerd or a technician when you work with this software. Creating chords and melodies with an arranger keyboard is just another approach that leads to different results. If you work in the office all day at the computer, you don't want to do that in your spare time. Not always, anyway Hence my desire for an arranger keyboard.

This thread has grown quite a bit in the meantime and has caused some disturbance here and there. Sorry for that.

[panos]

When I was refairing to mixing/equalizing I meant learning how ableton live works and how much time takes to build and combine tracks etc.
In an arranger you can choose a style, play the chords and melody and you have a ready made composition in few minutes.
I thought that in a DAW takes a little longer to do this and that is the reason I have said that.
Sorry for not been accurate of what I meant.

There is a song section in the forum and people share their music there if you like to join Tom

[tomsixtwo]

Ableton has a relatively steep learning curve because the program works differently from other DAWs. However, this time is saved when arranging, since all activities in the so called Session View can be recorded in real time as an arrangement. If you take the time to create an appropriate default song (with your preferred set of instruments, effects and other settings), you can realize your music ideas immediately.

Of course, this cannot be compared at all with the way an arranger keyboard works. Therefore we should now return to the topic (if there is anything to say at all  ).

[tomsixtwo]

Ha ha, by accident I came across my old thread again.

Now a few years have passed and Yamaha has at some point actually delivered exactly what I missed back then:  The Chord Looper.

Even if this function is unfortunately not part of my SX600, I have a lot of fun with this keyboard. However, I can't understand why this very useful function for learning, practicing and improvising is reserved for the flagship model of the PSR-SX series. From my point of view, this should be rather an entry-level feature.

[zzrwood]

Not having this feature made me cancel my planned purchase of a DGX-670...
Luckily, Korg make this easy on all their arrangers, so I bought an i3. It works easily and intuitively.