Does Yamaha have a holiday gift for the Genos?

[keynote]

The most recent update for the Genos i.e. OS update 1.30 was released back in April. Yamaha has had six months to hopefully work on a newer update but there has been no information forthcoming to confirm whether it is true or not. The Genos is mostly bug free in my opinion so perhaps Yamaha wants to leave well enough alone. But there are also things which could be easily added to the Genos and a list of those additions has been discussed previously. For instance, the Montage was basically bug free when it received a new update i.e. OS 2.0 (now OS 2.5) which improved upon what was an already good operating system.

The Genos is basically in the same situation. And that is why I remain optimistic that it too will also receive future update(s) and hopefully a new one before the year is over. The holidays are a time of family gatherings and of gift giving but of course Yamaha does what is in their own best interest. If Genos 2 is the only update for the current Genos then that too is a gift of sorts. But it will likely be two or three more years before Genos 2 is released. If Genos 2 adds enough new features and new sounds I could see myself trading in my current Genos for a Genos 2 but it would have to be far more than just an incremental update. In terms of logic, adding new OS updates to the current Genos provides greater customer satisfaction and thereby a greater incentive to upgrade to newer model(s) once they come out in my opinion. In other words, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. In other words, Genos owners should be treated in a similar fashion to Montage owners or at least that's the goal any way. Happy Holidays!

Mike   

[Robert van Weersch]

The Tyros 5 didn't get many updates in its four-year lifespan (I recall 1.04, 1.06, 1.12 and 1.13, only containing bug fixes), so judging by that release schedule, and assuming the Genos (1) will be on the market until at least 2020, I'd guess that there will be at least two more updates during that time. But will it contain new functionality? Only time will tell...

[EileenL]

Looking  at it from just a players point of view and by that I mean someone who bought a keyboard to just sit and play it as it is, then I think all is working as it should. Everything is there for you to play out or just be a home player. You also have the choice of adding new voices and styles via Packs or just purchasing new styles.
   Lots of the so called glitches mentioned a while back were due to user error and not really faults. Using computer programmes and DAW's is a whole new kettle of fish but for me the keyboard is working as it should.

[keynote]

Yes, I agree everything is working as it should for the most part. I still run into a glitch every now and then so I think a little fine tuning of the operating system may be in order. I guess it comes down to whether or not Yamaha wants to treat Genos owners like Montage owners. I am hoping they will but I assume they won't because of the nature of the beast. In other words, Montage in many cases is played by professional musicians from well known bands whereas the Genos (even though Yamaha is marketing the Genos to a younger generation) is still mostly purchased by older adults who mainly do as you like to do Eileen i.e. sit at home and play to your hearts content. I think if we start seeing Yamaha high-end arrangers being played by professional musicians from well known bands then Yamaha would likely change its tune. But I don't see that happening any time soon because arrangers are oftentimes frowned upon by those very same professional musicians even though within the last 10 years or so high-end arrangers have progressed by leaps and bounds.

Another reason why Yamaha may forego any more updates for the Genos is that they perhaps want Genos owners to also purchase a Montage since it means more money in their pocket. Either way, the Genos is still a wonderful keyboard. Would I like to see more features added to the Genos just like the Montage still receives? Definitely, and I think most Genos owners feel the same way. I know for a fact that Yamaha is busily designing and building Genos 2 even as we speak. I'm not sure if they'll keep the Genos moniker though. They might end up calling it something else. As I said previously if it's a significant improvement over the Genos I could see myself doing the upgrade dance. In two or three years of course or perhaps even longer.

Mike 

[Fred Smith]

The fact that Yamaha included a significant new feature (VoiceGuide) in a previous update leads me to believe they will follow the Monrage model with Genis.

I believe we will see an update before the end of the year, and it will include new features.

Time will tell,
Fred

[BenoitM]

I really hope they will release a new firmware, as some of the best features of the Genos are currently underused (or barely usable).

For example, the fact that we can assign multiple DSP to a voice is really a killer feature, but :
- Once multiple dsp effects are affected to a voice, we can only edit the last one, that's really dumb ! (yes, workaround exists, like temporarily assign a dsp to another voice, or temporarily switch off a dsp , but they are clumsy, and still are 'workaround' ...)
- To keep those multiple insertion effects, we have to save the voice to a Registration. saving to a 'Custom Voice' only keep one dsp effect. (not really a big deal, but still... why allowing us to assign multiple insertion effect if we can't save them as a Voice )

The fact that they did not achieved smooth sound transition when changing registration is killing me... I love Yamaha Keyboards, but Korg nailed it on the PA4X (unfortunalty, i really doubt that a software update would correct it...)

I also find the CFX and C7 Pianos a little too 'thin' to my ears (and, yes, I tweaked them, but the 'Legacy Section' Grand Piano is somewhat better, and has more presence than the 'Premium' ones... can't understand that...). If they released the 'Bosendorfer Piano' Voices of the Montage for the Genos, I would be more than happy, but apparently it won't happen...

I really enjoy my Genos (and I only have it for 10 days now !) , the SFX Keyboard is way better than my venerable Tyros 2, I also really enjoy the Joystick (really effective on Electric guitar sound or Synth Lead, it allows me to be much more expressive than with the PitchBend wheel) , the touch screen is ok, big enough and reactive, would have been pleased if it supported multitouch, but I can live without... The styles are really good ...

But it this price tag, it would be really cool if Yamaha gaves us a little present with a 'v2.0' firmware    (like they did on the Montage)

[pjd]

Hi --

A few random thoughts...

Like Eileen, my experience with Genos has been relatively trouble free.

I agree with BenoitM -- support for chained DSP effects is needed.

Another request is the ability to call up a User Style in MIDI Step Record. This would restore functionality that was lost from previous PSR/Tyros generations. Right now, you can only call up a Preset Style. A big hole for some users.

"... want Genos owners to also purchase a Montage" Well, they got my money for a MODX. :-)

MODX implements two insert effects per voice part. It has variation, chorus, reverb, mastering, and master EQ stages, too, making for a long chain. The long effects chain makes quite a difference for contemporary voices/genres including drawbar organ, electric guitar/bass and drums.

Genos is ahead of Montage/MODX in a few waveforms: Stratocaster, flugelhorn, and, of course, SArt2. Except for SArt2, these will probably appear in the next major release of Montage. It will be interesting to see how Yamaha handle that transition. A new product or an upgrade for purchase? Stay tuned.

Yep, the multi-part CFX Concert piano on the MODX/Montage has more depth. The Genos CFX sounds like the single-part MODX CFX. Genos could implement a multi-part CFX by layering the piano into RIGHT1, RIGHT2 and RIGHT3. Each of RIGHT1, RIGHT2 and RIGHT3 would need to respond to a different velocity range. This could be done independent of an OS update...

I'm hoping for an additional update or two. As Fred said, "Time will tell."

All the best -- pj

[voodoo]

Another request is the ability to call up a User Style in MIDI Step Record. This would restore functionality that was lost from previous PSR/Tyros generations.

I also think that the current Genos OS runs very smooth. The most reasonable point to improve would be to restore lost functionality from Tyros/PSR. I found, that calling and leaving the sequencer mode forgets the current midi file. That was more comfortable, before.

Uli

[Ernie]

I am still looking forward for a holiday gift from Yamaha for my PSR S950 

Ernie

[soundphase]

My wish is to have the possibility to use the 16 voice channels associated with songs to avoid the awful sound switch between registrations in normal mode (when we play freely in live with R1,R2,R3,L and styles, without playing songs)

In this new mode, the 16 channels voices for song would be unavailable. And there should be an automatic channel switch (from the usual 16 channels to the freed song channels) as soon as we push a registration button. Like this, all parameters for sounds started before we push the registration button, are kept until the end of the release phase for this sound, (or until we push another registration button, what is rare)

It is not always possible to avoid this awful sound switch even if we try to program our registrations very carefully. And it is not always possible to remove our fingers from the keyboard before we switch registrations.


Soundphase

[Fred Smith]

My wish is to have the possibility to use the 16 voice channels associated with songs to avoid the awful sound switch between registrations in normal mode (when we play freely in live with R1,R2,R3,L and styles, without playing songs)

In this new mode, the 16 channels voices for song would be unavailable. And there should be an automatic channel switch (from the usual 16 channels to the freed song channels) as soon as we push a registration button. Like this, all parameters for sounds started before we push the registration button, are kept until the end of the release phase for this sound, (or until we push another registration button, what is rare)

It is not always possible to avoid this awful sound switch even if we try to program our registrations very carefully. And it is not always possible to remove our fingers from the keyboard before we switch registrations.

This would be fantastic.

I had always thought we'd have to wait for Genos 2 to get this bug fixed, because, as you noted, it requires a extra set of midi voice channels. But if we could just repurpose the song channels, that would be a viable solution. I'd be quite happy to live without a song playing along with me, as I almost never use one.

Recording a midi might be problematic, as the song channels would need to be used there. Maybe Yamaha could support a designated use for these channels -- midi or voice switching, which we could specify in a setup somewhere.

It's nice to see someone who understands the problem, and has a viable solution to propose.

Cheers,
Fred

[keynote]

A funny thing happened on the way to the forum. No pun intended by the way. After I posted this topic shortly thereafter I received an email from Yamaha Corporation with an offer inside. It said if you buy a Montage during the promotion period you will get a free pair of HS5 monitors! How convenient. So I guess Yamaha really does want Genos owners to buy a Montage?!?! Could it be that Yamaha is trying to tell us something? In other words, if you really want OS updates you'll have to get a Montage because Genos updates are officially over i.e. kaput? I certainly hope not.

Here is another snippet of information that might intrigue you. This information is from Bad Mister who is the moderator over at yamahasynth.com. Here is what he had to say just one week ago, after OS 2.5 for the Montage was already released...

"It is important to check back for updates. That is a design concept of the platform... future updates, new features, new effects, etc., as well as the usual bug fixes, when necessary. This is only the beginning..."

I hate to be a party pooper but this perhaps does not bode well for Genos owners in general. Perhaps Yamaha is now focusing all of its attention on its synthesizer line and Genos owners have been hung out to dry in the process? For what it's worth you don't see any new videos of the Genos being produced by Peter Baartmans or Martin Harris or anyone else for that matter. For instance with the Tyros 5 you had new videos being produced several years after the Tyros 5's initial release. Yamaha could be going in a different direction altogether for all we know. If there are no more OS updates for the Genos then a Genos successor is our only recourse. At $5,500 a pop, or more, it better be worth the price of admission. 256 note polyphony allocated across the entire range of the keyboard would be nice. An 88 key version would also be nice and it should be relatively portable because as we know our 76 key Genos is also relatively lightweight. But I suppose we should limit our Genos successor "wish list" items to another thread that potentially could be "pinned" to the top of the forum where it would be easily accessible?

PS: I would have likely purchased the new MODX if it had after-touch. The Montage is a really nice keyboard but I think I'll just wait and see what the Genos successor has to offer and go from there. By the way, the Montage offer which includes a free pair of HS5 monitors is good until December 31st. 

Mike   

[pjd]

Hi Mike --

I think Montage sales have been relatively slow and Yamaha is afraid that MODX will cannibalize Montage sales. I don't think getting an e-mail about the Montage promotion is significant in any other way than it's a Montage promotion. This isn't the first time Yamaha have offered the free HS5 for Montage promotion...

BTW, I had a pretty good time playing MODX from the Genos FSX keyboard. Genos RIGHT1, RIGHT2 and RIGHT3 MIDI hit 3 of the 4 parts in the MODX CFX Concert Grand with pleasing results. I looked at the MODX MIDI spec and there's contradictory information as to whether MODX receives aftertouch or not. An experiment seems to be in order. 

All the best -- pj

[StuartR]

Hi --

A few random thoughts...

Like Eileen, my experience with Genos has been relatively trouble free.

I agree with BenoitM -- support for chained DSP effects is needed.

Another request is the ability to call up a User Style in MIDI Step Record. This would restore functionality that was lost from previous PSR/Tyros generations. Right now, you can only call up a Preset Style. A big hole for some users.

"... want Genos owners to also purchase a Montage" Well, they got my money for a MODX. :-)

MODX implements two insert effects per voice part. It has variation, chorus, reverb, mastering, and master EQ stages, too, making for a long chain. The long effects chain makes quite a difference for contemporary voices/genres including drawbar organ, electric guitar/bass and drums.

Genos is ahead of Montage/MODX in a few waveforms: Stratocaster, flugelhorn, and, of course, SArt2. Except for SArt2, these will probably appear in the next major release of Montage. It will be interesting to see how Yamaha handle that transition. A new product or an upgrade for purchase? Stay tuned.

Yep, the multi-part CFX Concert piano on the MODX/Montage has more depth. The Genos CFX sounds like the single-part MODX CFX. Genos could implement a multi-part CFX by layering the piano into RIGHT1, RIGHT2 and RIGHT3. Each of RIGHT1, RIGHT2 and RIGHT3 would need to respond to a different velocity range. This could be done independent of an OS update...

I'm hoping for an additional update or two. As Fred said, "Time will tell."

All the best -- pj

I'll add my thoughts...

If Yamaha intends to add new functionality to the Genos,  I'd guess they'd reveal this at the upcoming Winter NAMM. They have done this in the past with other keyboards. If we don't see anything by then,  I'd suspect we're in for only bug fixes down the road. On the other hand,  I remember reading in one of the Genos manuals that there was one feature that they said would be added in a future release. I haven't been able to find this reference to see if it has already been addressed.

[voodoo]

BTW, I had a pretty good time playing MODX from the Genos FSX keyboard. Genos RIGHT1, RIGHT2 and RIGHT3 MIDI hit 3 of the 4 parts in the MODX CFX Concert Grand with pleasing results. I looked at the MODX MIDI spec and there's contradictory information as to whether MODX receives aftertouch or not. An experiment seems to be in order. 

Hi PJ,

since the ref manual states (on page 100/101), that after touch (and ribbon controller) can be selected as source for control assignment, I assume, that it should work.

Uli

Source
Determines the desired Controller for controlling the parameter set in "Destination."
Settings: PitchBend, Modwheel, AfterTouch, FootCtrl 1, FootCtrl 2, FootSwitch, Ribbon, Breath, AsgnKnob 1–8, AsgnSw 1, AsgnSw 2, MS Lane 1–4, EnvFollow 1–16, EnvFollowAD, EnvFollowMst

[voodoo]

The most recent update for the Genos i.e. OS update 1.30 was released back in April. Yamaha has had six months to hopefully work on a newer update but there has been no information forthcoming to confirm whether it is true or not.

For MODX we have the following statement from Bad Mister at https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/architecture-and-terminology

The MODX, now at version 1.10.x has 2,143 Factory Preset Performances... more to come shortly.

So we can still hope for the Genos.

[dawn68]

Anyone know if an update to give a dedicated page for MFC10 is even possible? (As on the tyros 5)

[Sokratis1974]

I remember reading in one of the Genos manuals that there was one feature that they said would be added in a future release.

I hope for that....   

[valimaties]

Who tell me Genos is bug-less, does not use Genos in all its power. It has glitches to be repaired on touch screen controls, on saving DSPs to OTSs, playlist option of sorting... There are things that should be improved or repaired. So, use Genos .

Regards,
Vali

[keynote]

Hi Mike --

BTW, I had a pretty good time playing MODX from the Genos FSX keyboard. Genos RIGHT1, RIGHT2 and RIGHT3 MIDI hit 3 of the 4 parts in the MODX CFX Concert Grand with pleasing results. I looked at the MODX MIDI spec and there's contradictory information as to whether MODX receives aftertouch or not. An experiment seems to be in order. 

All the best -- pj

That would be nice if the MODX receives aftertouch. Hopefully your experiment will return good results.

It's really interesting how the MODX is basically a Montage scaled down but not by much in my opinion. It makes me wonder if Yamaha has a surprise in store at winter NAMM 2019? In other words, perhaps a new Montage? Korg produced the Kronos and then came out with a new version three years later i.e. the Kronos 2. The Montage will have been out 3 years in January so we'll see. It's a great time to be a keyboardist I must say.

Mike