Went out to buy a PSR E463 and ordered a Casio CT-X3000 instead!

[vbdx66]

Hi to al,

As you know, I have been searching for a new portable keyboard to complement my faithful but bulky DGX 650 for some time now.

I bought a PSR E433 for the second time but sold it again after one month because of its limitations.

Since then, I have been watching all YouTube videos with demonstrations of middle-range keyboards, focusing esp. on Yamaha and the PSR E463.

Having found a music shop 30 miles (50 km) from were I live which agreed to give me the same conditions as Internet vendors (same price as on Interned i.e. 298€, 30 days to get a refund if I am not happy with the keyboard), I departed yesterday to the Big City (Perpignan, hometown of Salvador Dali LoL) with the idea of coming back with the so-long-awaited PSR E463.

Before departing, I had the silly idea to phone another music store in the same vicinity to ask them whether, by any chance, they had a Casio CT-X3000 or 5000 on show because the first shop wasn't a Casio retailer and I wanted to try the Casio also to be sure I would not regret my choice. By chance they had both units on show (but not the PSR E463, mind you).

Since I had already tried the older PSR E453 earlier this year and since I had twice be the owner of a PSR E433, I decided first to go to the second shop to try the Casio boards, more to rule them out than for any other purpose really.

Well, the shop manager was very friendly. He put the CT-X3000 on a counter for me to try it at length and even put a decent pair of headphones at my disposal.

I started by playing the first sound (Stage piano on the Casio) and I wasn't impressed at all. I then promptly realised that Casio doesn't quite classify the keyboard voices as Yamaha would do, and other piano voices better suited my taste, in particular the Ambient piano.

What surprised me is the quality of the keybed. Some people here know how sensitive I am on that matter. This keybed is really good, believe me. I don't give a damn about the fact that the keys imitate piano keys, this is sheer marketing. But I simply loved the response of the keys and the control it gives you to the sound, which in my opinion, is very accurate. Much better than the PSR E433 keybed, which was already good.

I started to consider this keyboard with more respect, since the keybed is precisely what deterred me from buying a PSR E453.

I then started digging in what is the bread-and-butter of any arranger keyboard: the styles!

Here again, Casio's classification is really strange for any Yamaha fanboy (or fangirl LoL). The first style, EDM Pop, is quite nice and very different than the usual Yamaha styles. There is a category labelled "Orchestral" and it has a few nice surprises, like a style named String Quartet, and some styles which could be nice for reproducing movie soundtracks. There are some nice jazz styles. I didn't have time to explore all categories at length.

Honestly I found the style quality quite good. It goes way beyond reproducing Dance tracks (akthoughI love that) and Chart numbers.

Each style has one Intro, one Ending, four Mains and four Fills. There is thus much variation in each individual style. It is a pleasure to play them and you find yourself quickly trying to improvise a melody line on top of those styles.

These styles are also very flexible, since you can mute or remix all the parts, or even fully edit or completely rewrite these styles, including the panning of the different voices and a set of effects.

You can also better control those styles with your left hand chords than on the PSR E keyboards, because the CT-X3000 and 5000 understand subtleties such as on-bass chords and chords played on the full scope of the keyboard.

Oh, and here is the icing on the cake: there are THREEdifferent split points for the Upper1 (Main) and Upper2 (Dual) voices, the Lower1 AND Lower2 (yes, you've got TWO Split voices), and the Accompaniment.

Icing on the icing: there are two Pedal slots at the back, one for the usual Sustain pedal; the second one can be used either for a volume pedal (for organs, synths, pads, strings sounds for instance), or a second sustain pedal with which you can toggle the accompaniment on and off, or activate effects like a rotary speaker on an organ sound etc.

Well I won't go deeper into this. It was already running late and I had to come home, so I didn't make it to the first music shop with the PSR E463 on show.

Once home, I noticed that the CT-X3000 was advertised at a very aggressive 284 € price on Bax Shop (a website selling music instruments in Nederland, which also shops to France), so I immediately ordered it because I want to try it out more at length before deciding whether this is the right keyboard for me or not. If not, I still can send it back and go for the PSR E463 which, as you all know, has these great Cool! and Sweet! sounds, the Live! Knobs, an integrated digital audio interface and the ability to record audio directly onto an USB stick.

Well, the Casio is due to arrive in next Wednesday and of course I'll give you my first impressions. 

Hope I don't get kicked out of our great Yamaha forum 

Regards and a nice weekend to all, 

Vinciane

[Graham UK]

Vinciane. Interesting read and look forward to your finding when it arrives.
The Yamaha keyboard manager here in UK a few years ago left Yamaha and joined Casio so perhaps he has given them some input.

[EileenL]

Andy did not stay with Casio that long Graham but I think Casio has come a long way since they sold them in Woolworths for a few pounds.

[vbdx66]

Hi Graham and Eileen,

You've aroused my curiousity. What is the name of this manager who worked for Yamaha then Casio?

Regards,

Vinciane

[Gunnar Jonny]

Just had to seek up those models because of pure curiosity..  
PSR-E463 vs CT-X3000. Yamaha/Casio keyboards compared
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hleyype3m4

[vbdx66]

Hi Jonny,

This video is interesting as far as both keyboards features are concerned, but it doesn't give an accurate idea of the musical possibilities of the CT-X keyboards. Here is another short demo of the CT-X5000 (same sound engine and styles as the CT-X3000):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y4Ed-7b3VNo

It is after viewing this demo that I decided I had to try the CT-X3000 before buying the PSR E463; you know how the story ended.

Here is a playlist with high quality audio demos of the CT-X5000 on SoundCloud:

https://soundcloud.com/musicstore-professional/sets/casio-ct-x5000-demo

Better listen to these two tracks with a good pair of headphones.

If you want to know more about the contender, the PSR E463, watch past threads in this PSR E subforum, there are several threads with video demonstrations.

Regards,

Vinciane

[vbdx66]

And here two other tracks (one piano track and one with multiple voices) made with the CT-X700, the « little » keyboard in the CT-X range:

https://soundcloud.com/roho/sets/casio-ct-x700

Now it is hard to believe, but the CT-X700 is aiming at the same market as the PSR E363 and sells for not much more money than the PSR E263... but they are not playing in quite the same league IMHO.

Vinciane

[Al Ram]

This is an impressive model.   

Good choice.

thanks

[vbdx66]

Well my choice is not completely set. I have an option to send the keyboard back within 30 days if I am not completely happy with it. In the meantime, I propose both to experiment with the keyboard at length and check various points, and also to go to the other music shop to try the PSR E463 if I can.

Actually I was tempted to buy BOTH keyboards at once and keep the one I like better

Vinciane

[andyg]

Hi Graham and Eileen,

You've aroused my curiousity. What is the name of this manager who worked for Yamaha then Casio?

Regards,

Vinciane

Andy Carvill. He won't mind me telling you! In fact, he's now one of the contributors to 'Organ and Keyboard Cavalcade' Magazine here in the UK and told the story of his moves in the mag!

The Casios are very impressive indeed. Having spent just a little time with them, they offer a great deal that Yamaha only put on rather more expensive instruments. Not too keen on the piano style keys but it's something that would not take long to acclimatise to.

[vbdx66]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the information.

Per se, I am not keen on these piano style keys either, but in this particular case I just loved the keybed at first sight (or rather, touch), so to say. The fact that the keys are piano-like is more cosmetic than functional.

This keybed is the main reason (on top of the sound quality and the numerous functionalities) that I ordered the CT-X3000. I particularly like the fact that the styles have 4 variations and 4 fills, and that they are editable.

I must say that unfortunately I was not impressed by the keybed of the PSR E453 (I haven't tried the E463 yet but as I understand it, both keybeds'are the same).

On a Casio forum, someone is claiming he finds the keybed better than that of his Motif (!)

At first glance, I'd say the main drawback of these Casio's is the very awkward interface, to say the least.

I'll tell you more once the keyboard has arrived (probably on Wednesday).

Regards,

Vinciane

[SciNote]

I agree with most of what is being said about the Casio CTX-3000/5000.  The sound is very impressive, the fact that there are two split voices instead of one is also impressive (Yamaha used to do this back in the early 1990's), and I liked the styles, though I did not try too many of them.  And yes, the editing interface is not at all intuitive.  The features are there, like filter, envelope, and DSP, but it requires quite a bit of menu-diving to get to them.

However, I must disagree with the key feel.  I find it kind of spongy.  Not as bad as some of their older keyboards, but nowhere near as crisp as my PSR-E433 or even the successors.  So that is definitely something you want to try out yourself if considering purchasing any keyboard, because the opinion on this can be highly subjective.

Also, if you do any multi-track recording, please be aware of some serious limitations with the built-in 17-track sequencer.  One track can record whatever you play live, including upper and lower voices (which are main/dual and split on the Yamahas).  But for the other 16 tracks, only ONE UPPER VOICE can be recorded.  So, this is important if you do what I do when setting up "patches" on the keyboard, where I combine a main and dual voice and set the volume, octave, and effects for each voice to get a unique, complex voice.  Yes, you can set up such "patches" on the Casio.  But then when you record yourself playing that patch on any of these other 16 tracks, you will only get one upper voice, which is equivalent to the one main voice on the Yamahas.  The second upper voice (equivalent to Yamaha's dual voice) will not be recorded.  That is a serious limitation for me.

[pquenin]

I have played with the Casio CT-X3000 and X5000 and the keybed feel is great, I don't find it spongy. I have also noticed that it was less noisy than the PSR-E463 keybed.
As you find these Casios at a good price now here in France (they were too expensive when they have been introduced on the market ) they are a good choice if you don't need USB Audio.

[vbdx66]

@Bob: Thanks for your input

I didn't find the keybed spongy at all and I have had a PSR E433 for several years (and even bought one again earlier this year, hold it for one month and decided I needed something else - might buy one again later mind you, as a third board to take with me on vacation etc.). I found the keyboard of the CT-X3000 as good as that of the E433, maybe better, and certainly way better than that of the E453, which I totally disliked.

So maybe I am biased or there is a problem with the unit you tried? I must admit that the one I tried in the music shop had just arrived, I was one of the first - if not the first - player to try it out. Maybe this keybed doesn't age well? I hope it won't be the case  We'll see.

As for the interface, sound design and deep editing just look like a nightmare. I can't put it better than saying the philosophy of this CT-X strongly reminds me of the Korg M1 - Ouch! What this board is calling for is an external PC editor - remember those bygone times?

This is precisely why I have ordered the keyboard: to try it out leisurely and at length before deciding whether I want to keep it or not. If not, I can still switch to the E463. Isn't it wonderful to have the choice? 

As for muli track recording, it isn't an issue for me. If I want to do multitracking, I can always do it with Audacity or any DAW out there.

Also, contrary to the E463, I think that the CT-X3000 (and 5000) is meant for being played live but with some preparation. What I mean is that you would probably want to edit and store your patches and your rhythms, as well as your phrase pads (Casio's terminology for Multipads I believe), store everything in regs and set ready for your performance. Whereas with the E463 you would improvise on the fly with the live knobs, the muting tracks buttons etc.

This is what makes the choice between these two keyboards so difficult: they are both upper low-end arrangers, they cost more or less the same price, they can do more or less the same thing but they have a completely different philosophy altogether. If I could afford it I would be tempted to buy both actually.

@pquenin: you know how sensitive I have been about keybed, this is frankly one of the best I have had under my fingers, no exageration. Now of course I have played it for 3/4 of an hour, I'll tell you more on this when the CT-X will have reached its new home.

As for USB Audio, this is a serious drawback. I can still use my old digital audio interface, but since it is USB powered, I can use it with my PC but not with my iPad. I have been looking for a cheap digital audio USB interface for iOS but I have not found anything adequate so far.

Regards,

Vinciane

[SciNote]

Okay, I went to the music store and took another look.  They had the CTX-5000 there.  Keybed still feels kind of spongy to me.  Not bad, but in my opinion, not as good as the Yamaha.  But of course, that is just my opinion.  Clearly, there are people with experience with both brands who prefer the Casio, so as always, play it before you buy it!