Genos EQ

JohnS (Ugawoga) · August 17, 2018, 11:19:04 AM

Hi
I have of course been struggling with mixes as I had previously said
With the Tyros 5, I had all going great for good level recordings and some of my songs are higher and clearer than some on the Genos.
I know the Genos Is miles ahead of the Tyros and I do get pretty good recordings, but It is not easy .
I have been unhappy with my sound on the Genos lately as the next song i am doing sounded so toppy when played on my stereo and thumpy on the kicks.

So now I have decided before anymore messing ,I should get the EQ right on the Genos for my room
Ok , I have managed to get what I want and sounds also ok on headphones.
When i come to recording to audio, that Is where all changes . Some recordings are lower than I did on the Tyros and more thin and toppy.
I sit there for a long time trying to fathom out where I am going wrong.

Does the eq and compression settings affect the final audio recording to how loud and quality It Is. Like gain ..
I am really spending hours trying to get the high quality sound I am after.
I do find yamaha's Kick drums rather over the top and have to peg them back a little.
I listen to the demos on the Genos and i just cannot get that warmth and clarity that that come from them.
They must have a special wand In there studios
I am really being over the top critically over this, but some must know what I mean
I can get reasonable recordings with a fiddle, but I would like not to sweat over every different song playing over and over getting bored with It.

All the best
John

travlin-easy · August 17, 2018, 11:37:18 AM

Keep in mind that there are significant differences in the sound you get from various headphones, just the same as there are differences in the overall sound of various PA systems. What may sound great on your headphones, may sound entirely different on your home stereo, PA system and another set of headphones.

Good luck,

Gary

Lee Batchelor · August 17, 2018, 03:50:39 PM

Gary's right.

Headphones do not give you any room response. Personally, I don't know how some of the pros mix and master their recordings, and still get them right when using headphones. Perhaps they're used to the sound you're "supposed" to get. Most studios use quality, near-field monitors that are not allowed to react with any reflective surfaces.

I have limited experience recording the Tyros series, but I used to record my songs, EQ them as close as possible, burn the recordings to a CD, and then try them in several different sound systems - usually friends' stereos that were very basic right up to high end. That exercise gave me a pretty good idea where things were right or wrong. Remember, the guys who produce professional sounding CDs for the big players, have spent years perfecting their craft. Hope this helps

.

JohnS (Ugawoga) · August 17, 2018, 05:05:23 PM

Hi
I agree Lee headphones are not ideal for a finished sound.
what i am trying to say is ---

Does the settings you use, eq and master on the Genos affect the audio recording.
If you have the settings done in a certain way does it affect the gain

I find it is harder to get a low recording up to a reasonable -3db loudness and quality.
Nothing like a cd loudness and quality.
I had used the Audacity Limiter and amplify to get the sound up to a good level for soundcloud.
I am not the best at this game by a mile yet, but the playing is easier.
I will keep going at it.
I have scrapped oxygene 8 thre times now as i do not get the results i want .So i Start againand try to learn from mistakes .
It Is a long winded business this.
I wished I had a magic wand or one of them Mushrooms!!

All the Best
John

JohnS (Ugawoga) · August 17, 2018, 05:19:14 PM

Hi Gary
I do know what you mean,but you do know what I really mean.
I am fighting to get the warmth and quality plus a good level of sound.
I am not worried about 0 db ,but -3db is what I want.
I am now trying out different Eq on the Genos and will eventually get that sound I crave for as it is there on the quality of speakers I have.
Those kick drums on the Genos are over the top and before making a song I peg them back a little.
Panning sounds also puts the quality up a little, but I like to get that stereo that goes over your head In diferent places.
There are some clever mixers out there which leave a lot of us for dust.
Oh well keep trying!!

Be nice If Yamaha would do a mixing course for numpties from start to finish on the Genos.
It would be better than all the save this and save that stuff
Years ago I had a Disco and used an eq for different halls and that was easy, but this is a different ball game.
You can study all the videos you like,,but getting the Genos right is quite difficult. That is how It seems to me at the moment.
One day things sound ok and another not so good, or is It the mood you are In. who knows!!

I do know that I will eventually overcome this.

all the best
nohn

all the best
john

Lee Batchelor · August 17, 2018, 06:02:10 PM

John, assuming you're recording into Cubase, I always record everything flat from the keyboard. Some of the Genos effects are much nicer than those found in Cubase, but there's tighter adjustments in Cubase than with the Genos.

To achieve the -3 dB level, I use a combination of the Genos Master volume (usually around 2:30 on the dial) and the Gain pot on my sound interface, which is the Steinberg UR-44.

JohnS (Ugawoga) · August 17, 2018, 06:34:38 PM

Hi Lee
I do tighten things up In Cubase like note lengths or a .
I an learning Cubase now.
I read about this gain staging which is important and tried it out.
I did all I could and the recording later was still miles under a recorded Cd level
I tried lowering all to -12 db for so called headroom
In the end I had trouble getting It up

and when I did the Jarre version of Oxygene 8 blasted my head off and my recording sounded puny up against that.
I should of thought not too much needs doing to a good finished song from the Genos,but I was wrong with the way I went about the recording
IIt is taking time to get used to Cubase ,but It never falls over.
I can edit and us an eq , but I have to understand limiters , compression, clipers etc a little more. also this gain staging.I got something wrong on my last effort.

all the Best
john

jwyvern · August 18, 2018, 01:48:38 AM

Quoting John,
"Does the settings you use, eq and master on the Genos affect the audio recording.
If you have the settings done in a certain way does it affect the gain"

Yes, if you are playing live or receiving midi inputs the settings on the Masters will affect what is burned into your audio recordings. Probably the quickest way to check it out initially because it is only 1 knob to worry about is to fiddle with the master compression output as you are playing back some midi (or play live) so you can see and hear what it does to the gain and quality during audio recording. Then move on to trying out the various presets in EQ and Comp. coupled with manual changes and see how they modify your mix as the midi is played back.

JohnW

JohnS (Ugawoga) · August 18, 2018, 02:42:40 PM

Hi John
I will take your advice there.
I got the soundpacks goldeq up and and compression
It does not do my Genos any favours and also my Dxr 8's.
Their EQ is much too Toppy.
So I decided to go back to the drawing board.

I chose Flat EQ and compression Natural.
My AKG' headphones and DXr 8's have now come alive. Best quality I could wish for at the moment.
I now only need to do very fine adjustments.
Like you say turn the Compression output up and there is still plenty of quality.
So really you do not need to have wild Eq's and compression.
I put an audio file up of JMJ Oxygene 8 against mine on the Genos and it is so close now.
Also compared the different demo songs on the Genos
well John W Thanks for your input. It is a struggle when you are not used to fiddling with EQ and compression on the Genos. Easier to do EQing In Cubase on finished songs to stop frequencies clashing.
So am I right here .Choose flat and natural and make fine ajustments for your hearing instead of all these so called EQ presets that others use.
Maybe flat and natural is best for all Yamaha components as they make the Flat and natural EQ and compression.
Now to finish off and get my head stuck into Cubase.

All the best
John

So Now I am getting very close

motekmusic · August 20, 2018, 02:00:29 AM

Hello John,

Although my Genos has not yet arrived , this thread was of utmost interest, as for me, mixing is a pain in the neck and any advice
is welcome. The two suggestions that i gleaned from the replies was one from Gary about discarding earphones whilst
doing a recording mix and the other gem was to perhaps try using the FLAT eq setting for recording.
Anitcipate that these 2 suggestions will greatly relieve messing around. Just posted a song from the s975 which was 1st
recording (wav and MP3 ) on that instrument. Should have looked at this thread before doing about 8 mixing retakes.

Next time will try the Flat EQ to record and not do a recording when have sleepy folks around.

thanks so much

cheers
elaine

pjd · August 20, 2018, 12:27:40 PM

Quote from: ugawoga on August 18, 2018, 02:42:40 PM
I chose Flat EQ and compression Natural.

I now only need to do very fine adjustments.

Hi John --

I'm glad that you closed in to this solution. A lot of the mastering advice recommends making only minor tweaks (fine adjustments) at the mastering phase. Big tweaks suggest issues with the mix itself or the individual recorded parts (i.e., are one or more individual parts really serving the song?).

You had me ~~scared~~ worried there for a while!

All the best -- pj

Tommy 73 · August 20, 2018, 02:41:26 PM

Worth considering in the Pursuit of a good recording would be to start with the right foundations first.... I can recommend this software to help with that... plenty to read online so here are some good links to start off with...worth remembering the room you mix and master in can have a profound effect on your recordings and this can be the course of much frustration when you listen to your hard work in a diffrent environment... hope this helps

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/sonarworks-reference-4-standalone https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/video-reviews/2017/12/10/review-sonarworks-reference-4-software

markstyles · August 22, 2018, 05:46:39 PM

It can be a lot of work to get a great sounding mix, other times, not much work is involved. I would play a commercial CD thru your speaker system, and compare the Genos EQ's and relative levels of each instrument. Like Tommy said your room, speakers, placement, etc, shape of room make a huge difference.

I don't particular care for Genos drums. I think they are perfectly fine for live performance. I record, each drum instrument seperately into my DAW, I often use different drum programs, or Drumagog, a drum replacement program. Other times the Genos drums sound the same.

You can do individual things to separate drums, lo end roll off, notch, hi filter, change pitch of one drums. Sometimes you can just use the Genos straight, and run a mastering strip on the final output.

Yes, using Genos limiter, and EQ can greatly change the qualities. In general I think Yamaha are the best company for making their arrangers, sound fine, and homogenous.

Music, like any other instrument, profession, etc - you can get reasonable good, but you spend the rest of your life refining, and perfecting your craft.