No Free Space

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi

I have a song recorded to midi and have set the mix levels to where i want them.
I went to setup and pressed execute after all checkboxes were ticked that I want.
It tells me it cannot execute because no free space.
I only have 10 midi songs saved on the keyboard itself

Can anyone tell me what is going on here with such a great memory this keyboard has.

Other completed songs save ok when execute mix settings ,but my Oxygene8 song will not execute mixer settings.
Gremlin In the works!!!

all the best
john

[maartenb]

Could it be possible you bump into the memory limit of the MIDI sequencer? In other words, it may have nothing to do with the free space of the user memory.

Can you rerecord the song and save it first without adjusting the volume levels?

Sometimes people had the same problem with the Tyros5, where the MIDI file became to big. Especially Ensemble voices and pitch bend and modulation take a lot of space in a MIDI file.


Maarten

[deepsae48]

In GENOS Specifications
Internal memory is 58GB
for MIDI recording data capacity approx. 300 KB per song
For Song (Audio) data capacity approx. 0.8GB per song

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Maarten

I think by what you are saying It could be the sliders that work automatically
There Is as you say a lot going on with sweeps and arpeggiating where the pan knobs are busy going back and forward on their own to get the effect.
I would have thought that the Genos could handle midi file snapshops as all is information
The way around it for me is to set everything up at the beginning and do all adjustments then go for a Wave file record and twiddle as I go along, but leaving the auto parts to do their own thing.
The trouble is, if the recording is not up to what I want, like missing a twiddle, It is back to the beginning setting everything up again ,PAIN!!.


All the best
john

[maartenb]

In GENOS Specifications
for MIDI recording data capacity approx. 300 KB per song

Still the same limit as the Tyros5.    This might be John's problem.

Fortunately, you don't often hit this limit, but when you do, it's painful.

Maarten

[maartenb]

The trouble is, if the recording is not up to what I want, like missing a twiddle, It is back to the beginning setting everything up again ,PAIN!!.

I know. I've been there. 

If you want an impeccable recording and don't want to practice the song 200 times, you have to use a DAW like Cubase, Reaper, Ardour, etc.


Maarten

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Maarten

I get the Snapshot now.
I am just learning Cubase and will have a go In there.
Thanks for your help Maarten


All the best
John

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi again Maarten
Another thing I am crunching my head on is final mixing of this song Oxygene 8.
I chose Sky pop which is a modern beat and the kick drums in there are way too heavy.
I firstly recorded the song and mixed the best I could ,but on my Marantz stereo there was a lot of low bass rumble
I went back and forwards loads of times seeing if I sorted It out ,but NO!!
I toned the kick drums down a bit and found some sounds had bass in them ,so I took them out of the mix.
I did some eq-ing and It looks better now, but still I have to TWIDDLE!!!
It is funny how sounds fight each other and some sound muddy, even with all those preset sounds on the keyboard.
I do still struggle a bit ,trying to get the sound levels up to that pro standard. After mixing and using all necessary tools, It never comes out like a pristine pro mix.
well, that is being critical, but i will keep trying.
Shortcut is to limit and amplify!!  but only so much!!


all the best
John

[maartenb]

(This is a reply to John's remark about mixing and off-topic. Moderator, feel free to move this to a new thread, thanks)

After mixing and using all necessary tools, It never comes out like a pristine pro mix.

Don't beat yourself up. Mixing and mastering is an art (just like playing a keyboard is). It has to be learned and practiced, practiced, practiced, for a long time.

Maybe this will help.

An analogy to mixing
When you want to paint a picture, say a house with a tree, fence and a smiling sun, you have certain limits to work within. You can't go outside the canvas, so the frame is the first limit.

You have to make a choice where to put the house and the tree. Is the tree standing in front of the house? Fine, but then you cannot see part of the house. If you want to see both the house fully and the tree fully, you'll have to put them next to each other. Where the tree and house are, there you cannot paint grass, the horizon or the sky. Things can't overlap; you'll only see the last painted object. Limit number two.

Limits to music audio
Back to audio, there are also limits. Hard limits. Hard as in impossible to break, since it's designed that way. These three limits are:

• Channels
  You only have two channels: left and right.
• Volume (dynamic range)
  The softest sound is silence. You cannot go softer than that. The loudest is 0dB. Even if you want louder, it's not possible. You'll only get clipping and that sounds like a distortion.
• Frequency
  The lowest tone (frequency) you can hear is around 20Hz and the highest around 20kHz. If you want to have higher frequencies, only dogs and bats are able to enjoy your song. 

And things can't overlap, otherwise you don't hear them separate anymore.

Conclusion
When you mix, keep these limits in mind. Just as the frame of a painting.
Where do you put each instrument: left, middle, right or somewhere in the middle?
If you want to hear the bass, which is most often in the middle, it occupies the lower frequencies. Other lower frequency heavy instruments therefore need a bit of EQ to remove the lowest frequencies, to make space for the bass.
Etc.

Play around with mixing and have fun with it. You'll get better with each time. If you want a really good mix, find a friend who has experience with mixing. Or pay someone to do it for you.

Fortunately for us keyboard players, the styles have already been mixed by professional mixers at Yamaha. They sound great out of the box!


Maarten

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Maarten

I do try to  keep these things In mind

Tonight experimenting In Cubase
Got all the levels right for recording 12 midi tracks to audio and done that sucessfully
Trouble is when I played the audio tracks back the sound nearly took my head off and was totally distorted. That was a Tinitus Special!!!!
I am trying one track at a time now and seems to work
Flaming computers!!!   so much time and things can get long winded!! .I suppose I can get tablets for that!!


All the best
John

[Pigletboy]

Looking forward to hearing your Oxygene 8, John, I really enjoyed your version of London Kid a while back! 
PB

[Joe H]

I think the 300k limit with the on-board sequencer on arranger keyboards is a big oversight on the part of Yamaha.  I've pointed this out several times over the past several years.  Yamaha need to a include a sequencer with similar capacity of the Motif and Montage keyboards... 110,000 to 150,00 notes/MIDI events. 

The 300k sequencer equals approximately 32,000 MIDI events. That's terribly inadequate for a keyboard with a live arpeggiator and the potential to use all 16 channels of data between the 8-part styles, 4 Multi Pads and Left and Right Voices. Yamaha increased the polyphony without increasing the sequencer capacity. That doesn't make much sense to me. It's probably a simple oversight on the part of the designers.

Joe H

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Pb

I have played the song  through after a few takes and done some editing like a couple of odd bungles and note lengths.
I was unhappy with my mix as the modern edm styles rumble and drone on my hi-fi. Scratching my head there as It is hard to find the offender.
i sorted through thwe somg and found some other bass tones interfering and trie eq ing them out.
I was getting frustrated again as this is a driving song and a little different in approach to London kid and songs like that.

Well as I played the song through and done minor edits most of the leads are on the top line or track 1.also things are grouped together more.
I watched a video on mixing again and again and again Puff fff Puuuff!! sweat, boring!! but necessary.

So what I have done now Is to decide to go into Cubase a lot deeper with the Genos.
Up to now I copied all midi tracks to separate audio channels and now I can eq separate parts ,or try bashing my head against the wall.
That will me a while and a few bungles along the way.
I reckon by Friday ,I will get this done.
Steak and a bottle of wine Friday night. It used to be" Mr Friday night"
for me playing Is the easy part. the mixing is sheer frustration sometimes.
I will have to get more organized and make templates and folders that I cannot lose.
Sometimes In the throw of things  there are bits and pieces all over the place and It would take more than a dyson to clean everything up!!!

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Joe
I have put the song In Cubase to deal with the Genos short comings.
Turn my song to separate audio tracks will get me over the mixing faders problem.
my finished song was a quick straight record to midi and a little Cubase cleanup.
The Genos would not execute the fader settings or settings
Must be too much going on In the song then I hear!!
I am going to try my hand at EQ tonight!!!sweeping those frequencies.


all the best
John

[Joe H]

John,

If you moved the knobs or faders while recording, that may be too many MIDI events.  If that's the case, then next time... try opening the song file in MixMaster and try "thinning" the continuous controller events to a lesser amount.

Joe H

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Hi Joe
Thanks for that tip .
I will give that a go tomorrow.

all the best
John

[sugarplumsss]

OP  Are you a full time pro musician?  I am, and I am leaning more and more towards throwing money at the issue. How? I Purchase MIDI Songs from Yamaha. Now if you are doing your own songs just ignore this!

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

.....I Purchase MIDI Songs from Yamaha.

Hi sugarplumsss ,

You are right,  YAMAHA SOFT  offers fantastic midi files.  Over the years I have acquired nearly 200 of them, and some are not even expensive, less than 5 US$.
You can easily "customize" them with Midifile Optimizer 8,  (i.e. standardize which channel you want the melody to be on or silence it to play it yourself like I do, change the channel of the base, the instruments and their volumes)  and tweak them on Tyros 5/6.
In comparison with anything one - at least I and it seems also most other members here -  can accomplish they are definitely very much better. But often it is the doing that is fun and enjoyable, whether the end result sounds professional like the YAMAHA fantastic 8 bar intros and endings  does not matter to us. 

Unfortunately you are not done even then as what sounded perfect on Tyros will not sound perfect on Genos  (drums and effects) and tweaking midi files on Genos is one of the things I would really want the upcoming update 1.4. to make as easy as it was on Tyros.
You are not applauded for saying that, but some things on Genos  1.3 are a step backwards compared to Tyros. To which we are being told  "You are negative, it is a completely different animal, why did you buy it ?"
Psychologists call this attitude  'post purchase rationalization'. It refers to how humans do their best to overlook any faults or defects in a product or service in order to justify their purchase. A relative of mine who is a psychiatrist says it's called a choice-supportive bias.
Once we have made our choice, we stick with it. We defend our decision with all we've got. "It's better", "It was a great decision", "I am so clever".

Cheers

Kaarlo

[EileenL]

I don't see how all these Pops and Digs at Members are going to help John with his problems  Kaarlo.

[Fred Smith]

I don't see how all these Pops and Digs at Members are going to help John with his problems  Kaarlo.

Agreed, Eileen. Psychologists call it the "poor me" syndrome.

Fred