Is it possible to export Packs FROM the keyboard TO Yamaha Expansion Manager?

[valio7771]

Hi Valentin,

have you ever tried using Linux to access the hard drive?

I have tried.

I'm on a dual boot with Windows 7 and KDE Ubuntu, no success on either of those. It's the hard's logic board fault, it does not 'speak' to what's connected to it. The hard drive doesn't spin when connected, and I can't be sure if the physical data is still intact because there's no way to know where the actuator was in the moment when the board failed. If it was over the plate and digged on it, that's practically 'game over' with the physical data. It happen over night, I just woke up to BSOD that morning and that was the end of it. I bought a nice Samsung 850 SSD 250GB for a  primary OS drive.

Cheers,

Valentin

[wersianer]

Yes Valentin, I'm sorry, because I know no more advice. Professional data recovery is costly and does not guarantee complete preservation of your data. To save me such a bad news I bought myself a self-locking NAS. There, the data is constantly mirrored. This may not help you now in your emergency situation, but perhaps you are thinking about such a purchase for the future.
I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[wersianer]

I remember something else: Is the hard drive connected via USB? With me once the disassembly of the board for the USB connection and the direct connection of the hard disk in my computer helped that I could access the data again.

[pjd]

Hi Valentin --

I read your original message. More brainstorming...

So, hey, the T5 has a hard disk. The drive can be disassembled from the T5. See the diagram attached below.

The Hard Disk Drive (HDD) is listed in the Electrical Parts as "2.5inch 500G" Yamaha part number ZG677600. Even though it's (probably) a standard 2.5" drive, the bracket converts to USB. The connector at the end of the "bracket" could be weird (not a a standard USB-A connector) -- I've never actually seen one!

I would expect Yamaha to use a fairly standard file system. So, there is the option of pulling the T5 hard drive and connecting it to Windows, Mac, Linux machine through either USB or SATA/IDE. I think I would go with Linux because you would have to tour around the file system to see what you can see. 

Naturally, I would never recommend this, etc., etc. etc.  You could really lose it all.

Just brainstorming -- pj


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[DerekA]

There's a video on You Tube showing how to replace the hard drive with an SSD. It is just an ordinary hard drive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffeOJUp--1M

(Not sure that helps the OP in any way, just for general interest)

[EileenL]

Packs loaded into YEM are kept on the computer hard drive. This is why you don't lose them when you update YEM and uninstall the old version first. I then create PPF files from YEM and keep them on a USB stick so I have a back up should my computer hard drive fail.

[valio7771]

The Hard Disk Drive (HDD) is listed in the Electrical Parts as "2.5inch 500G" Yamaha part number ZG677600. Even though it's (probably) a standard 2.5" drive, the bracket converts to USB. The connector at the end of the "bracket" could be weird (not a a standard USB-A connector) -- I've never actually seen one!

That is the next thing in my 'To do' list.
I actually thought about SSD swap in the keyboard long time ago but still haven't done it, mainly because of the general pricing of the SSD's until recently, and because there ain't gonna be any difference in the loading and saving speeds due to the bottle neck in the integrated USB type A interface inside the keyboard, which is fairly slow compared to the speeds the SSD's can operate. But based on my recent HDD related events, I might invest in one more SSD for the Tyros as well, just for the sake of avoiding any more mechanical failures.

Thanks, pj

Valentin

[pjd]

That is the next thing in my 'To do' list.

Hi Valentin --

Since you were running Windows/Linux dual boot, I figured that you wouldn't be fazed by looking inside the Tyros 5 HDD.  I've never browsed through one and don't know if there is anything useful to help you recover your work. I would be very curious to browse through one myself just for curiosity's sake. 

Best of luck -- pj

[wersianer]

Hello Valentin,
I have to ask again:
Did you remove the hard drive from the T5 and the USB-board is attached with 2 screws on the hard drive?
After loosening the 2 screws, you can pull the small board out of the hard disk.
And then you have this hard drive connected to your computer?
If necessary, perform a chkdsk.
That's what helped me get the data back.

[valio7771]

I have to ask again:
Did you remove the hard drive from the T5 and the USB-board is attached with 2 screws on the hard drive?....

Hi,

I think you've misunderstood the problem from the beginning.
There's nothing wrong with the HDD inside the keyboard, it's the one that was in my computer and I've lost my the data that Yamaha Expansion Manager (YEM) 'knew' about what is installed on the Tyros and allow me edit those packs however I like and sent them to the keyboard. Now after the new installation of Windows, YEM is not able to read the data back from the keyboard. And because I haven't made a backup of an appropriate file type of my customised packs, which would have allowed me to properly import them back into YEM, I'm now stuck with what's currently installed on the keyboard without being able to further alter/edit those packs using YEM.

BTW, I still haven't taken the keyboard's HDD out to see if there is some hidden system files on it. I'm a bit busy with other things currently.

Cheers,

Valentin

[EileenL]

Voice packs are loaded into the flash memory on Tyros. I don't think you will find them on the keyboard hard drive. They are usually stored in the YEM and held on the computer hard drive.

[pjd]

Voice packs are loaded into the flash memory on Tyros. I don't think you will find them on the keyboard hard drive. They are usually stored in the YEM and held on the computer hard drive.

Hi Eileen --

I agree that the possibility of finding data to recover the packs is slim.

However, we won't know if we don't look.  I suspect that Valentin has the OS skills to take a look without stomping on the T5 HDD. Spirit of adventure and all that -- as long as the risk of losing everything on the HDD is acknowledged, accepted and mitigated.

BTW, I doubt if we will ever get a peek at the "internal drive" within Genos. It's an eMMC device and is (probably) soldered in place. Judging from the start-up flowchart in the service manual, it holds the Linux root filesystem at the very least.

All the best to everyone -- pj

[EileenL]

You can still link up Genos to computer via a printer type cable as we did on Tyros and read what is on User Memory.

[larvol]

I would recommend for all users that haven't lost there YEM data just copy this folder "C:\Users\XXX\AppData\Local\Yamaha\Expansion Manager" on a usb flashdrive,harddisk,cloud or whatever. This way u will save all your work in YEM. You'll be safe from losing your data

[fantomx2019]

Voice packs are loaded into the flash memory on Tyros. I don't think you will find them on the keyboard hard drive. They are usually stored in the YEM and held on the computer hard drive.

You are wrong.
it is stored somewhere, but we can´t acces that partition.
Why am I saying that?
I have a Genos and a Tyros 4.
Bot at booting are showing: loading flash...
The thing, I presume, is that all is compressed in a wavetable, that is loading at boot.
I did some digging with genos.
In C:\Users\USER\AppData\Local\YAMAHA\Expansion Manager\Packs\ it can be found every single pack installed in YEM, decoded in it´s way.
The locked one, has only a wave table. Open the .index and you will see that every sound has the waves in one wavetable
The unlocked, user, have multiple wavetables , for each sound.

Exemple
First text si from a locked pack:

{19ed84fe-45e9-4cd8-83fe-4068ca2b2d84}   fd7dbdfd19681653fe2f671f55729b4ba1c5160f   cpf         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:10   
fd7dbdfd19681653fe2f671f55729b4ba1c5160f   Latin-EU   cpf         2020-02-29T14:20:35   2020-02-29T15:34:12   
2   Latin-EU_S970            2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   
3   French Musette 1   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
4   French Musette 2   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
5   Accordion Kabina   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
6   Accordion Organ   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
7   Accordion Comb    uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
8   ItalianAltoSax 1   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
9   ItalianAltoSax 2   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
10   Woodflute Trill   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
11   WoodflteStraight   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
12   Airy Woodflute   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
13   Fiddle Vibrato   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
14   Italian LeadGit   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
15   Italian ChorGit   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
16   ItalianRhythmGt1   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
17   Mandolin f   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
18   Upright Bass   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
19   Accordion Clari   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
20   Accordion Mala   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
21   StereoAccordion1   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
22   StereoAccordion2   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
23   FolkAccordion1   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
24   FolkAccordion2   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
25   Mandolin mf   uvf.legacy.n.user         2020-02-29T15:34:10   2020-02-29T15:34:14   T226
...

the second is from a user pack

{f0f6f011-f8b3-4f86-af2f-5e349a33bb3f}   EasternEurope_S770            2019-08-03T09:30:20   2019-08-03T09:31:33   {f0f6f011-f8b3-4f86-af2f-5e349a33bb3f}/cdfcfbb6ae9a400aba4d34c437f1a572c2c15416
cdfcfbb6ae9a400aba4d34c437f1a572c2c15416   EasternEurope_S770            2019-08-03T09:30:20   2019-08-03T09:30:20   
{b3276f7c-5716-4bdc-8a7e-c79958af3839}   Nu Trumpet   uvf.legacy.n.user         2019-08-03T09:30:20   2019-08-03T09:31:32   T226
{a8c6cd33-bc1a-4b48-a84c-4ef9b3d5f5a9}   Bariton Tenuto   uvf.legacy.n.user         2019-08-03T09:30:20   2019-08-03T09:31:31   T226
{792dfa43-bb87-41b6-95ec-32775b0af8bc}   Tuba Legato   uvf.legacy.n.user         2019-08-03T09:30:20   2019-08-03T09:31:31   T226
{aa98c94c-2fd1-4c92-92ac-69357891755d}   Trp+Bone Stac   uvf.legacy.n.user         2019-08-03T09:30:20   2019-08-03T09:31:32   T226
{584f770f-099d-403a-a99e-735a9a1ac5bf}   Trombone Stac   uvf.legacy.n.user         2019-08-03T09:30:20   2019-08-03T09:31:30   T226
{32bcb0a6-68a6-46e9-93dd-e6b92d376531}   Bari+Bone Stac   uvf.legacy.n.user         2019-08-03T09:30:20   2019-08-03T09:31:29   T226

...

the text is very long, I didn´t copy all...
se attached pictures.



Just like a locked pack, I presume, somewhere, there must be a wavetable, single, with all the flash data.
The thing I am working now, is to find a way, to copy from a single wave table, to extract, to multiple wavetables, and make them an unlocked pack.
But i still make tests.


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[EileenL]

We all know that once you load a pack into your keyboard it is not possible to save it back onto the YEM. That is why it is so important to save these packs into a folder on your computer or onto a USB stick. Then if you lose them from the YEM you can load them back. If you want to edit or decide what voices to load you have to use the YEM to do this.