Sound comparison Tyros versus Genos

[voodoo]

What we did was compare the sound quality of voices by switching from  an "imported" Tyros  grand piano sample (not legacy) to the CFX  grand piano sample on the Genos.
Kaarlo

Hi Kaarlo,

thank you very for doing this test. I love tests of this kind, just for pure science reasons, because we want to know how things work. Very appreciated.

However, I think the title of your post could have been chosen more wisely. In fact, it ts not

* Sound comparison Tyros vs. Genos

But it is

* Comparison of one Tyros voice played on Genos vs. one Genos voice

This is a completely different thing. But this is still very relevant, since we all want to know whether the quality of the piano voices have been augmented from Tyros to Genos.

And what is your conclusion? Do you think the new voices are better? Or even, are they different? Recently I bought the soundpack "3 Grand Pianos" from Phantawalker. Yes, theses samples are very different form the built in Genos samples. I still don't know if they are better. Perhaps I will use them for appropriate occasions.

Kind regards
Uli

[JohnS (Ugawoga)]

Thanks for your very good points. 

1
Yes, how you record does affect the sound. We used the best we had available, digital all the way. And as a fact converting the recorded digital WAV to digital MP3  on the PC using NCH  audio editing software did destroy the slight difference we were able to hear on WAV.  We did not want to do the original recording in MP3 as we were afraid it would so what it did, blur the difference.  As a fact to me MP3 is a no no. All my demo CDs I send to people contemplating to give me a gig are WAV.
With sound it is like with wine tester terminology, hard to find really good words. We felt the Genos was  a little "arier", would say  like the difference in your bedroom when you wake up and then open the window for a minute. But our main point was to show, any difference in sound quality is so minimal that in a performance situation it will not be discernible.

In this case it was just a comparison switching while playing from using one sound= voice file installed on the Genos,  SFX piano to another installed on the Genos voice file, the Tyros Grand Piano.

2
The recording was done from the digital output of the Genos. As with digital outputs in general, output it is not affected by output potentiometer position.  It is (surprisigly) ok to use any high quality RCA  cable to the Tascam digital recorder SS CD R 1 which fortunately as it is intended for studio use unlike many digital recorders does provide a "digital in volume" adjustment in addition to a "digital out" volume adjustment. The level from the Genos was at something like  - 20 dB so  the Tascam was adjusted to a higher  input level in order not to have to process the result recorded to the card.

3
It is true you can tweak sounds,  treble and bass, effects  etc.  In this case nothing was done because I believe keyboards should give their best without tweaking, that's the manufactures duty. And once you start doing that in a comparison you break the rules governing testing procedures.  I was some 30 years ago involved in consumer goods testing and just as an example, if you test washing machine noise level you must make sure everything else is equal, filling degree, filling material location etc.

4
Very good point,  I am used to the Steinway grand (1922 model ) I inherited. And as Steinway says, not one Steinway sounds exactly like the others. And typically I feel mine has the best sound as I have heard it consciously for nearly 8 decades. 

6
You overestimate my knowledge,   I do not have the sligtest idea of what a  Argon Accumulator is. I only know Argon is a non reactive gas.

I am vary happy you made your post,  I have made quite a few that did attract up to 150 readers but nobody felt they were worth or possible to reply to.  Maybe because they were about less wonderful procedures when using the Genos like changing just one instrument in a midi file needing 17 steps.

Cheers

Kaarlo

Hi Kaarlo
You did not answer question 5, unless it's top secret!!

But An Argon Accumulator Is a device for squeezing Space so you can travel accross the peaks like a wave file with a little  bit of compression.
You would of course need a space vehicle of some kind. The result means you get from A to B a lot quicker Instead of light years.
Hawkwind seems to know about all of this because they have a Silver Machine!!!Oh well we can all dream!!!

Like music ,It is all about frequencies ,vibrations and wavelengths and a load of mushroom fodder.


All the best
John

[Pianoman]

Hello Kaarlo.

Thank you for the quiz, which I found interesting in that it simply encouraged the
listener to spot the difference between one piano and another, and where in the
song did that difference take place.

As you have seen, not many people, other than Soundphase, and Soryt in a way,
wanted to stick their neck out and take a guess.

Like I have said in another post above, taking a guess entailed the risk of getting
it wrong, or admitting that one can't tell the difference, which many have avoided
doing.

Instead, as you have seen, 90% of the responses have concentrated on diversion,
rather than just giving a simple yes or no answer.

I guess it's partly because many of us humans consider ourselves infallible,
so admitting that we don't know something becomes extremely difficult.

It would have been interesting though, to see who could have spotted the
difference, and where.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[DerekA]

Abby - I didn't hear any differences.

I don't think we were actually hearing two different piano samples at all.

I would be very interested to hear the same comparison switching between ConcertGrand recorded on a Tyros 5, and CFX Grand recorded on a Genos.

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Hi Kaarlo,
....... However, I think the title of your post could have been chosen more wisely. In fact, it is not

.... Sound comparison Tyros vs. Genos.

But it is Comparison of one Tyros voice played on Genos vs. one Genos voice

This is a completely different thing. But this is still very relevant, since we all want to know whether the quality of the piano voices have been augmented from Tyros to Genos.

And what is your conclusion? Do you think the new voices are better? Or even, are they different? .....

Kind regards
Uli

Hi Uli,
You are right, the title should have been "How much better is the  Genos piano sound compared to the Tyros piano sound"

For me the piano sound is VERY IMPORTAT. My conclusion is, it is better, You can when you play in your studio or on  a WAVE  recording made from the digital out of the Genos hear a slight difference.  I do not know how to describe it, maybe the word "aerier" somehow  says something or  "a bit like the difference between stereo and mono".

My reason for going to all this trouble was that the difference is so small that already converting the recording to MP3  makes it for me inaudible and as a result I am convinced that in gig circumstances it will not be recognized. 
And admittedly,  as a YAMAHA keyboarder since the early 1990s  I felt uncomfortable when people  post they are congratulated at gigs for their wonderful new keyboard due to its sound.
For me it seems a fact that  the sampling technology of YAMAHA  has reached a perfection with the Tyros line that cannot be much improved upon.  And in this department "the law of diminishing return"  seems very real. ( I have not even considered or listened  to any other makes as learning a new system is out of the question at my age) 
Claims that  upgrading to Genos is worthwhile for a gigging musician due to the difference in sound has  for me a hollow (commercial) ring. 
What does not have a hollow ring to me is people saying,

         I have the money, I want the latest, I believe it is the best and there is no space for bills in my coffin.

The Genos has many advantages over the Tyros 5/6 that are indisputable, weight, size, sliders, assignable buttons  etc.  One excellent feature that weighs very heavily for me is the STYLE CREATOR  with which I have tweaked over 100 styles of various provenience  that until Genos were unusable.

Why would I have bothered to spend  4 months digging into Genos if it did not offer very appealing features ?
There is no need for making unrealistic claims. IMHO  it is counterproductive even from a commercial point of view not to admit there still are  things in the Genos that need to be fixed.  It is  OK to point out  that something  needed is not implemented so it is not a bug, but denying an obvious implementation error distracts from the allure of the product  makes me wonder whether the posters are like those who post  Putin and Trump are just fantastic.

Cheers

Kaarlo
 

[panos]

Kaarlo I can see your point of view but when a keyboard is playing a style there are more voices been heard than a right hand voice.
Combining them together you have a number of sounds that can make a difference between two keyboards (3 RH voices+LH voice+8 part voices+effects etc).
And I think that is what they probably mean about the difference of the sound between them.

If the audience can understand the difference?
I don't know.I don't gig to have personal opinion about their comments and what they hear.
I guess they are probably more focus on eating,drinking and chatting rather than analyzing what they hear.

I will also mention the fact that the kind of music that someone may plays, defines the kind of styles and sounds he is using.
For new pop music unfortunately for us the newer the keyboard, the better.
Or if it is traditional or even modern but non western music, probably a grand piano sound isn't going to be used at all but the revo drums can make a difference. 

I didn't like windows 10 so I didn't installed them neither at home or at my pc at work, because i don't use or have to use many of their new features.
But for someone who is more familiar than me in using smartphones/tablets/I pads,
their interface maybe more convinied to him so I never asked to myself "Why did he do it"?

[Kaarlo von Freymann]

Kaarlo I can see your point of view but when a keyboard is playing a style there are more voices been heard than a right hand voice.
Combining them together you have a number of sounds that can make a difference between two keyboards (3 RH voices+LH voice+8 part voices+effects etc).
And I think that is what they probably mean about the difference of the sound between them.

If the audience can understand the difference?
I don't know.I don't gig to have personal opinion about their comments and what they hear.
I guess they are probably more focus on eating,drinking and chatting rather than analyzing what they hear.

I will also mention the fact that the kind of music that someone may plays, defines the kind of styles and sounds he is using.
For new pop music unfortunately for us the newer the keyboard, the better.
Or if it is traditional or even modern but non western music, probably a grand piano sound isn't going to be used at all but the revo drums can make a difference. 

I didn't like windows 10 so I didn't installed them neither at home or at my pc at work, because i don't use or have to use many of their new features.
But for someone who is more familiar than me in using smartphones/tablets/I pads,
their interface maybe more convinied to him so I never asked to myself "Why did he do it"?

Thanks Panos for a post that consoled me. Everything you wrote is exactly what I believe things are.   And BTW No windows 10 here, no tablet, not even a smart phone  .  Widows 7 in the office because I believed the b....t that my book keeping would crash because XP would become the cyber criminals target.  XP on the lap top I must use to adjust the autopilots in UAVs. I am still involved  in the RD of new  UAVs for the Finnish defense forces.   Contrary to what was claimed  XP has worked flawlessly since end of support and so has my YAMAHA 5700  (1992)  The Genos has some fantastic advantages. There is no disagreement whatsoever on that. But I will wait until they get the bugs that are claimed not to exist straightened out. 

Cheers
Kaarlo

[stephenm52]

Hi,
I hope I don't offend anybody here ... 
never r

It really is not rocket science. Some people seem to make things more complicated than they really are.
We are talking about music here and having some fun with it (at least I hope so)
I am with Eileen on this ...
Again: Sorry if I offend anybody
Just some observations 
Regards
Eric

Great post Eric!

[Bachus]

I compared them yesterday..  for a few hours... 
Genos vs Tyros..

And if you know that the AWM2 sound engine in both instruments is exactly the same
And most samples where also in the T5, then many of the sounds are near to the same..

However, where it comes to new sounds.. like the upgraded piano's
Then there is clearly a difference, ..
And this goes for all new sounds in the Genos, they are of the highest quallity
Same for the EVO drum sounds, these ar not on T5 and are better then everything the T5 has to offer.
Total sample memmory of Genos is 3 time sthe size of the T5 if i am right
And all this memmory is used for maybe 100+ new sounds..
Another huge step is the number of new sa2 sounds..

Where the Genos makes the biggest step in sound quallity, is the DSP section
Having 28 insert effects is a huge step for the overall creativity and sound quallity..
Espescially for people like me that love improving sounds trough dsp..

Also i think some of the improved and new styles are musically more to my liking and more live sounding then its predecessors.. 

The weak point to me, for both instruments from Yamaha is their synth sounds, this is where i definately like the pa4x and espescially my Kronos so much better. But i realise this sound cattegory is not the most important to most arranger players

Fun thing is, the 2 things that set  Genos appart from T5 most are not directly sound related.
First there is the much lower weight, which is a real deal for gigging musicians.
And then there is the whole new interface with..
- live controlls
- touchscreen
- assignable buttons
- joystick (love the extra button)

Which for me makes the whole experience just so much more enjoyable on a Genos.
The Genos is the best arranger keyboard available right now.
(Which i have allways said, even tough all my intial criticisme still stands)

I also like it more then my current pa4x..
Not just for the more wellrounded sound
But mostly for the filehandling where it comes to styles and performances..
Its a god blessing to be able to play directly from directories on a USB stick.. amd chnaging between them on the fly..

As i have allways said, i will not buy any arranger in the first 6 months after release
I am right now in the phase of deciding to buy a Genos, yes or no, thats the question..
Its a lot of money for replacing something you are allready quite happy with.
All depends on how much i will be able to get for my pa4x..


Let me finish with this...
Both the Genos and the Tyros5 as well as the Korg Pa4x are incredible instruments..
And the differences are in the small details..

Just play what makes you happy and enjoy it..
Or just enjoy the best you can afford..
Because there are no bad instruments these days
So its all about enjoying the music you make..

[stephenm52]

Bachus,  Good job with your review, thanks for the in-depth write up.

[ton37]

Thank you for your review @Bachus (and other reviewers too  ).
Could you (or anyone else) clarify more about this quoted item:

I compared them yesterday..  for a few hours... 
Genos vs Tyros..
........
'quoting'...
The weak point to me, for both instruments from Yamaha is their synth sounds, this is where i definately like the pa4x and espescially my Kronos so much better. But i realise this sound cattegory is not the most important to most arranger players

.......

For me the Synths are an important isue in a keyboard (for EDM).
@Bachus, do you mean that the existing (preset) Synthsounds are not satisfing you? Could they be improved by the user or by third-party venues? What I want to know if those new DSP's could be used to improved a particular synthsound to ones need? Then save it for future use? Or is it technical not possible within the Genos?

I know that it is possible in various ways to get better/customed synths, but I just want to have it in 1 (one) keyboard.
I'm not interested in other keyboard brands/vst's etc. Just asking to clarify your statement, as I'm not knowing the Genos, but heavenly considering to obtain one
Thanks in advance.

[DonM]

I compared them yesterday..  for a few hours... 
Genos vs Tyros..

And if you know that the AWM2 sound engine in both instruments is exactly the same
And most samples where also in the T5, then many of the sounds are near to the same..

However, where it comes to new sounds.. like the upgraded piano's
Then there is clearly a difference, ..
And this goes for all new sounds in the Genos, they are of the highest quallity
Same for the EVO drum sounds, these ar not on T5 and are better then everything the T5 has to offer.
Total sample memmory of Genos is 3 time sthe size of the T5 if i am right
And all this memmory is used for maybe 100+ new sounds..
Another huge step is the number of new sa2 sounds..

Where the Genos makes the biggest step in sound quallity, is the DSP section
Having 28 insert effects is a huge step for the overall creativity and sound quallity..
Espescially for people like me that love improving sounds trough dsp..

Also i think some of the improved and new styles are musically more to my liking and more live sounding then its predecessors.. 

The weak point to me, for both instruments from Yamaha is their synth sounds, this is where i definately like the pa4x and espescially my Kronos so much better. But i realise this sound cattegory is not the most important to most arranger players

Fun thing is, the 2 things that set  Genos appart from T5 most are not directly sound related.
First there is the much lower weight, which is a real deal for gigging musicians.
And then there is the whole new interface with..
- live controlls
- touchscreen
- assignable buttons
- joystick (love the extra button)

Which for me makes the whole experience just so much more enjoyable on a Genos.
The Genos is the best arranger keyboard available right now.
(Which i have allways said, even tough all my intial criticisme still stands)

I also like it more then my current pa4x..
Not just for the more wellrounded sound
But mostly for the filehandling where it comes to styles and performances..
Its a god blessing to be able to play directly from directories on a USB stick.. amd chnaging between them on the fly..

As i have allways said, i will not buy any arranger in the first 6 months after release
I am right now in the phase of deciding to buy a Genos, yes or no, thats the question..
Its a lot of money for replacing something you are allready quite happy with.
All depends on how much i will be able to get for my pa4x..


Let me finish with this...
Both the Genos and the Tyros5 as well as the Korg Pa4x are incredible instruments..
And the differences are in the small details..

Just play what makes you happy and enjoy it..
Or just enjoy the best you can afford..
Because there are no bad instruments these days
So its all about enjoying the music you make..

Exactly!  I'm about ready to find a Genos to audition.  I agree with everything you said!

[Gunnar Jonny]

.. I'm about ready to find a Genos to audition.

WOW, good news Don, because that tell us your healt is better!
Only wish I could be there to hear you pick at those lovely Genos guitars.


Quote @Bachus:
Just play what makes you happy and enjoy it..
Or just enjoy the best you can afford..
Because there are no bad instruments these days
So its all about enjoying the music you make..

So true! 

[Bachus]

Thank you for your review @Bachus (and other reviewers too  ).
Could you (or anyone else) clarify more about this quoted item:
For me the Synths are an important isue in a keyboard (for EDM).
@Bachus, do you mean that the existing (preset) Synthsounds are not satisfing you? Could they be improved by the user or by third-party venues? What I want to know if those new DSP's could be used to improved a particular synthsound to ones need? Then save it for future use? Or is it technical not possible within the Genos?

I know that it is possible in various ways to get better/customed synths, but I just want to have it in 1 (one) keyboard.
I'm not interested in other keyboard brands/vst's etc. Just asking to clarify your statement, as I'm not knowing the Genos, but heavenly considering to obtain one
Thanks in advance.

Its just personal preference i guess
I never liked the yamaha analogueish synth sounds
(Except for the cs80 series, but the those where really authentic)
(And offcourse the dx and vl synths)

In general yamaha sounds very warm..
Thats what i really like about yamaha
But synths sometimes need to be crispy harsh and dynamic
Personally i think yamaha sticks to much to the warm side of the spectrum.
And not just with Genos but will their AWM synths..

Offcourse, you can do quite some edditing
To edit them and make them more your own..
Or even load a whole bunch of samples in the expansion memmory..

Another thing id lfo's..
The awm2 has 3 lfo's..
In Genos You can't assign them freely
They are typically assigned to pitch, amplitude and filter
They are used to  create vibrato tremmolo and wah..

For more advanced synth sounds
You would like to assign them to other parameters
Like pan, attack or a delay
Making synth sounds much more dynamic in nature.

And then there are the filters..
I don't think any other synth engine has as many options as the awm2
But the filter quallity is in my book average at best..
And filter performance is one of the most important things for EDM..
Many of the wellknown effects we know in todays EDM are created by manipulating filter cutoff and resonance..

But then, in the end, Genos is not a synth..
Its an arranger..  and the soundengine is created for o so many more sounds then just synths..

[panos]

Ton these are the Genos effects.
Reverb 59 Preset + 3 User
Chorus 107 Preset + 3 User
DSP    Variation: 358 Preset (with VCM) + 3 User | Insertion 1-28: 358 Preset (with VCM) + 10 User

You can use them to any voice to change and save it as a new voice as we can do it in other models.
There are preset synth voices to do it.
But if you want to create a new voice that doesn't exist on Genos or any other Yamaha keyboard you can create that voice on a pc and then insert the voice to Genos.

I saw Jan taking a .wav format voice and use it for his s970.
https://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,43485.msg343550.html#msg343550

I guess this way he can create his own voices for his packs except from modifying the preset voices.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKMCMKzVg20

Genos's synth voices and effects are limited compared to a synthesizer's
but maybe a synthesizer's voices and effects are limited compare to a pc
so the good thing is that we have so many options nowdays that is hard to choose.

[ton37]

Thank you @Bachus & @Panos, this is good to read. For me this style of music (EDM etc.) is being underexposed in the Genos Demoes. I'v sold my T5 (76) because is was to large for installing in my studio.
I was looking for a T5 (61) momentairly. But the more I read/listen etc. concerning the Genos I am parking the hunt for a T5(61) and consider again to focus on the Genos.
So thank you again for your replies. Mmm.. luxury problems are here again  Regards Ton

[panos]

Tyros 5 preset dance styles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EI85MEXHLw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAciHmQkKkI

Genos preset dance styles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KlHMMGMbII&t=7231s

Genos advertising & promotion I guess was supposed to be for us, the older guys who can afford an expencive keyboard and because we are older we don't like to play new music that much or at least if we do,we are the big minority (that's true  )
So lets advertise the brand new cfx piano sound,the new "oldies but goodies" styles etc

But if you are young and still have not much money to spend for a keyboard,
here is the advertisment for the e-series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91ViS-_FEOM
I wonder if it has a piano sound in it, but if you are a teenage who cares (they thought)
i am just kidding 

[Pino]

Hi Panos, good post.

I'm think that you are 100% correct

Do you think that's the reason that Yamaha has not updated the sequencer and the style creator for the past 20 years because they believe that the older players (can't take it with us- gang) will never use it.

Are you saying that they have made a nice cabinet with nice sounds and that's it.

Seems a shame to me that we cannot easily edit and make new styles from midi like Korg and Ketron and be able to easily output midi to a dedicated PC sequencer like Cubase for Genos. (Yamaha owned)

Do you think that Genos 2 will have more styles and more sounds ONLY, and the older players will still go out and buy it because,  "we cant take it with us" or as Eileen says, "there's no pockets in shrouds,"

This whole thing is beginning to sound like a joke,

Will YAMAHA ever make a real "Arranger Keyboard' with arranging tools that suits a "style based" instrument or will they stick to playing this game for the sake of making money,?

My guess is that we will have Genos 5 and still no real "style editing"
I was hoping that Yamaha would have turned out a few iPad apps by now.
Then players would be happy and players/style editors would be happy.

There was much better editing on the Technics keyboards of 25 years ago

Just my take,

Pino

[Fred Smith]

There was much better editing on the Technics keyboards of 25 years ago

Guess you should have stuck with Technics, because from what you said, Yamaha isn't for you.

Good thing there are other companies catering to your marketplace so you don't have to put up with Yamaha's inferior products.

Fred

[Pino]

Fred,
I still have Technics, Korg and Ketron keyboards
But,
I have been using Yamaha keyboards for my gigs for the past 10 years
I know Yamaha styles inside and out and I like Yamaha styles,
I can play over the intros and endings, I know each one,
That's important to me when I'm out gigging

Why should I have to jump ship now
All I'm asking for is better style editing
An iPad app would do,

Why is that such a big deal for Yamaha Music,

My dealer says that "Yamaha Musicsoft" would stop such 'apps'
Cos they want to sell styles to us.

Why are you so defensive of Yamaha?
Isn't it better to talk about these things and hopefully someone is listening,
And maybe there could be some changes in the future

Can't you just say, "YES, the Yamaha Style Creator of the past 20 years needs updating?"
I believe you never use the 'style creator', then stick to what you do and not comment.

Pino

[SeaGtGruff]

All I'm asking for is better style editing
An iPad app would do,

Why is that such a big deal for Yamaha Music,

My dealer says that "Yamaha Musicsoft" would stop such 'apps'
Cos they want to sell styles to us.

There are already computer programs for creating and editing Yamaha styles, or converting from Yamaha styles to other manufacturers' formats and vice versa, and Yamaha MusicSoft hasn't put an end to those programs, so I don't see why they should care one way or the other if someone were to make an iPad app for creating and editing styles.

If Yamaha were against people being able to create and edit styles, then they wouldn't include the Style Creator on their keyboards at all, would they?

[mikf]

Pino
I believe what Fred is expressing is that many of us are getting tired of the stream of posts which focus on what the Genos or other Yamaha keyboards do not do, instead of accepting and exploring what it does. Yamaha has a business plan and philosophy for each of their keyboards, and they are absolutely entitled to that, just as you are entitled to not buy it if you don't like it. Why are you not using the Technics for your gigs, .....because overall it isn't as good, even if it has a couple of features you like. Just like every other product.
Mike

[EileenL]

What is stopping you creating your own styles in Genos or adding riffs to the existing ones. Like Technics you can mix style parts from other styles to create new ones. Plus the fact that there are thousands of dedicated styles on the net that you can adapt to your own use.

[Pino]

Guys, can't I have my say without being shot down mainly by members that did not have any input whatsoever on this topic and probably never use the 'style creator', why butt in on something you don't use, if you did use it then you would probably agree with me,

I just asked a question on why Yamaha has not updated the 'style creator' in many, many years.
It's a feature that I do use when ever I am away from my PC, even on a gig I may tweak something on my break time, I always have my iPad Pro with me but no apps there for editing styles.

Seagruff
All my styles are song specific and only have one song intro, when I gig I want Easy, no pressing the wrong intro for me, you mention many programs for editing styles, how many can shut down  2 intros and 2 endings,? Please tell me.

mikf,     it would have been better if you had red my post first before replying.

I have been using Yamaha keyboards for my gigs for the past 10 years
I know Yamaha styles inside and out and I like Yamaha styles,
I can play over the intros and endings, I know each one,
That's important to me when I'm out gigging

Better still if you were to comment on why Yamaha has not updated the onboard 'style creator' in many years,

Fred,  —- why so GRUMPY 😡

This is a Yamaha Arranger Keyboard Forum, I was hoping that we could express our views on how to improve something and discuss the good and the bad,

Now I'm beginning to doubt this,

Regards to all. 

Pino



[attachment deleted by admin]

[Fred Smith]

Better still if you were to comment on why Yamaha has not updated the onboard 'style creator' in many years,

Fred,  —- why so GRUMPY 😡

You're the one who's grumpy, Pino.

You ask for the freedom to express your views, but deny that to others.

You push away the very people who could help you.

People have commented on why style creator has not been updated -- you're the one who's not listening.

You're only hurting yourself.

Fred

[Bachus]

Pino
I believe what Fred is expressing is that many of us are getting tired of the stream of posts which focus on what the Genos or other Yamaha keyboards do not do, instead of accepting and exploring what it does. Yamaha has a business plan and philosophy for each of their keyboards, and they are absolutely entitled to that, just as you are entitled to not buy it if you don't like it. Why are you not using the Technics for your gigs, .....because overall it isn't as good, even if it has a couple of features you like. Just like every other product.
Mike

Why so harsh?

For a typical arranger player, the Genos is near perfect...  it really is..
Sure deep edditing requires Yem. And deep style edditing is better dome on a PC..
But thats not really an issue for most arranger players..

You must also see that there are other people with differenet idea's wants and needs... for example :
- playing EDM on an arranger..
- having styles on stage piano..
- having an arranger module for use with your accordion..
- having a fullfledged workstation with arranger capabilities
Just to name a few..

Many of these people feel a little forgotten..
That noboddy is building the instrument they dream off
They are all arranger players
And looking at the most expensive and best performing they see something that doesn't fit their needs..

And thats why people then go to the online forums and speak aloud...
For those things they where hoping for..
I don't see anything to get upset about..
If you don't agree, just say so and then just neglect them..


Its a fact, for some the Genos is perfect..
For others its not..
But i dont see any major changes to this comming up

So for everyone the advise to accept the Genos as it is
And either make the best of it and add it to your setup..
And post your wishlist in a topic in the group : Yamaha's next keyboard.. on this forum
While there is allways a place for criticisme on this forum
With the instrument released and final specs set in stone
Things will not change much anymore, you can leave that up to Yamaha arranger development
They never made huge changes to software
And i have come to the conclusion that its highly unlikely they will do so with the Genos..

It might sound strange this comming from me..
But i agree that there is no use takking about criticisme and missing features of the Genos on the Genos main board.
We could start a topic for that on the prementioned next yamaha group..
Sure all my initial criticisme still holds.
But i agree, this is not the place now to discuss such things
This group is for helping other users get the best experience possible with the Genos.

So let me finish this discussion with a question, i would like to ask those experienced helpfull users that are the reason i still visit this forum..

Is it possible to see what voices are in the OTS sets 1 to 4 witouth selecting them?  (Trough a menu screen or such)

[EileenL]

If you select a multi pad set and then press edit at top right of screen and then edit you will see voices in that set. Very quick and easy to do.

[Pianoman]

Hello Everyone.

Many of us, including myself, have long pleaded for civility and understanding
on this forum.

For a very long time now I have been biting my lip and holding back on writing about an
issue that I find a bit disconcerting.

I fervently hope that my writing about this issue will not get my post deleted.

There is a certain Gentleman who specialises in ridiculing, and giving caustic and uncivil
ripostes to members, every time they raise an issue or point out a flaw in a Yamaha keyboard
or anything Yamaha related for that matter.

This has been going on for a long time, and unfortunately still happens very frequently,
yet this particular Gentleman still seems able to get away with it every time.

WHY?

This is the Elephant in the room that many members recognise, but no one wants to address,

But WHY do we tolerate this and say nothing?

I hope this helps to rectify this problem.

Best Regards.
Abby.

[Bachus]

Hello Everyone.

Many of us, including myself, have long pleaded for civility and understanding
on this forum.

For a very long time now I have been biting my lip and holding back on writing about an
isues that I find a bit disconcerting.

I fervently hope that my writing about this issue will not get my post deleted.

There is a certain Gentleman who specialises in ridiculing, and giving caustic and uncivil
ripostes to members, every time they raise an issue or point out a flaw in a Yamaha keyboard
or anything Yamaha related for that matter.

This has been going on for a long time, and unfortunately still happens very frequently,
yet this particular Gentleman still seems able to get away with it every time.

WHY?

This is the Elephant in the room that many members recognise, but no one wants to address,

But WHY do we tolerate this and say nothing?

I hope this helps to rectify this problem.

Best Regards.
Abby.

Wow, i have never been called an elephant before..
Would be nice to, allways having a trumpet on your nose..

[Bachus]

If you select a multi pad set and then press edit at top right of screen and then edit you will see voices in that set. Very quick and easy to do.

Thanks Eileen, i will be checking this..
Sounds like the answer i was looking for