Onsong

[pratcli]

Hi anyone know easy way to setup and use onsong with Genos I would like to have onsong open registration but am New to this. Any help appreciated thanks

[Fred Smith]

What is onsong?

[pratcli]

Lyric and chord app like songbook

[pratcli]

Anyone know easy setup procedure for onsong to open genos registrations. I find onsong easier than songbook but I am New to this. I basically want to learn in easy terminology how to connect and use onsong with Genos. Thanks Peter

[zionip]

Pratcli,

Are you sure that Yamaha supports the use of onsong with Genos?  The two often mentioned apps that can call up Genos registrations are Songbook+ and MobileSheets Pro.  The description of the onsong app does not mention keyboard registration manipulation.  Are you sure that this can be done with onsong?  This is the first time I heard of onsong in this forum.

You may want to check with onsong support and Yamaha customer support on this topic.

Thanks,
Paul

[pratcli]

Still can't find info on genos and onsong setup and communication in easy basic language. I have onsong for years but now purchased genos after 14 years of 9000pro, so I need assistance or info on a website which could help me setup and use. Thanks in advance as onsong site dosent cover it and Yamaha are pushing songbook

[Paul B]

I have used OnSong for years and much prefer it over Songbook. However, I don't have it connected directly to the keyboard. I just don't see the need. I am still doing gigs 2 to 3 times a week but the way I use OnSong with my keyboard doesn't seem to be benefited by a connection. That's just the way I operate.

That said, I just read an article it Gear Tech+ Recording magazine that talked about using OnSong with a MIDI connection for control. I'm sorry I didn't pay closer attention but as I said, I just don't use it. I suggest you contact the folks at OnSong and ask for their help. They have always done good for me.

Good luck.

Paul B.

[Bertmusic]

I use Onsong for years now during gigs with my band. First I connected it wireless to my Tyros. While selecting a song, OnSong sent the right midi commands related to that song to the Tyros (and other instruments). For all my instruments the right registration memory and sounds turned up for the selected song.

Unfortunately, the Genos is a different story. You cannot select a registration memory using midi commands. So I am not able anymore to get the right sounds while selecting a song in OnSong. For the Genos, I have to do it manually.

[ckobu]

I think you are wrong. Genos registration sends and receives midi information. It works in Mobilesheets app.

https://youtu.be/83KSbB5H-_8

[Al Ram]

I think you are wrong. Genos registration sends and receives midi information. It works in Mobilesheets app.

https://youtu.be/83KSbB5H-_8

I also control my Genos registrations from my iPad using SongBook+.

thanks

[Bertmusic]

Finally, I am able to have the right Genos registration selected by midi while selecting a song in OnSong.
Therefore I use a wireless midi to bluetooth adapter because it is not possible to have OnSong as a WLAN client of Genos.

In Genos you just have to go to the midi receive page and select "Keyboard" for the right receiving midi port and channel.

In OnSong you have to go to the midi editor and play with the following parameters:
MSB should be 0 (unless you have more than 127 folders with registrations)
LSB selects the registration bank (LSB 0 = Bank 1, LSB 1 = Bank 2, etc) in the actual directory. It is not possible to choose another directory with midi commands, you have to do this with Sy*** commands
PC selects the registration within the selected bank (PC 0 = registration 1)


In Songbook+ the communication with Genos is much easier. It looks like they use Sy*** for the communication. But I prefer OnSong as my song book.

[Thomasu]

hi i have a yamaha tyros 5 and i will like to could use the two thing togetter so i i pick a song in my onsong it changes 2 the right program on my tyros but it will not work my keuboard has a libery with alots of banks an a bank has 8 music number can you help me about will get that two work and what i shall vrite in the midi commands ?

[Thomasu]

I have 1 to 23 banks with 8 Songs in each  bank  i my reg memory  and I Will like to open
My onsong in my ipad connectet via midi and load One text from One Song and onsong Will send the right midi command to my keyboard and Now is the keyboard ready with the right reg an i can play bur what is the midi comand sombordy WHO can Help me ?? 🙏🙏

[overover]

hi i have a yamaha tyros 5 and i will like to could use the two thing togetter so i i pick a song in my onsong it changes 2 the right program on my tyros but it will not work my keuboard has a libery with alots of banks an a bank has 8 music number can you help me about will get that two work and what i shall vrite in the midi commands ?

I have 1 to 23 banks with 8 Songs in each  bank  i my reg memory  and I Will like to open
My onsong in my ipad connectet via midi and load One text from One Song and onsong Will send the right midi command to my keyboard and Now is the keyboard ready with the right reg an i can play bur what is the midi comand sombordy WHO can Help me ?? 🙏🙏

Hi Thomasu,

you can call up or switch the Registration Banks on the Tyros5 via MIDI Bank Select (MSB / LSB) commands.

And via Program Change 0 - 7 you can call up / switch over the Registrations #1 - 8 of the current Registration Bank.

The MIDI channel used in conjunction with "OnSong" must be set to "Keyboard" in the Tyros5 MIDI Setup (RECEIVE Tab).


Please answer my following questions first so that I can give you more detailed information:

- How do you establish the MIDI connection to the iPad (and thus to the "OnSong" app) and which iPad model and which connection it has (30-pin, Lightning or USB-C connector)?

- Are you using a Bluetooth-LE MIDI adapter (e.g. Yamaha MD-BT01) or maybe a WiFi connection (with the Yamaha "UD-WL01" adapter)?

- Are you using an external MIDI interface with the iPad (if yes, which model)?

- Are you using a direct USB-MIDI connection (USB-to-host socket on the T5 >>> USB type AB cable >>> Apple Camera Adapter >>> iPad)?


Best regards,
Chris

[overover]

Hi Thomasu,

is your problem (control T5's Registrations from the "OnSong" App) already solved?

If not, please answer the questions in my last post, then I will describe the necessary details for the Registrations on the Tyros5 and name the required MIDI commands.


Best regards,
Chris

[Patrick]

Hi Chris, i've tried also to use Onsong to control my SX900; i'm using an Ipad Air with  USB-MIDI connection (USB-to-host socket on the T5 >>> USB type AB cable >>> Apple Camera Adapter >>> iPad); on the SX900

The MIDI channel used in conjunction with "OnSong" is set to "Keyboard" in the SX900 MIDI Setup (RECEIVE Tab).
On Onsong I've tried to send some  MIDI Bank Select (MSB / LSB) commands, and via Program Change 0 - 7 to can call up / switch over the Registrations #1 - 8 of the current Registration Bank.

But without result for the moment.
Ok it's works now; Patrick

On Songbook +, it's perfect; i can call a song from the registration bank, and the song opened call the registration; I'll check again Onsong tomorow, all the best Patrick

[Pino]

On Songbook +, it's perfect; i can call a song from the registration bank, and the song opened call the registration; I'll check again Onsong tomorow, all the best Patrick

Can someone confirm:-
If I save the MIDI OUT Chanel and the MSB+LSB+PC to a registration,  will this send a midi message to 'OnSong' to change the PDF sheet music.

Pino

[overover]

Can someone confirm:-
If I save the MIDI OUT Chanel and the MSB+LSB+PC to a registration,  will this send a midi message to 'OnSong' to change the PDF sheet music.
...

Hi Pino,

you cannot "save the MIDI OUT Channel and the MSB+LSB+PC" directly to a Registration. The only way to get a Registration to send MIDI commands to an external MIDI device is to include a (dummy) MIDI file that contains the corresponding commands.

By the way: The MIDI Setup (MIDI Setting) is always GLOBAL. It cannot be saved to (or called up by) Registrations.

Edit:
On Genos and PSR-SX models there is always sent a Sy*** message when calling up a Registration, and you can use Sy*** messages sent by an external MIDI device to call up Registrations (e.g. from an iPad by using an App like Songbook+ or OnSong).


Best regards,
Chris

[Pino]

Thanks Chris for your reply.

I'm not really sure if I need the midi link, yes it's very convenient but I was just browsing the App Store and I saw this little app called 'Music Binder' for $1

Looks like am ok app to me, 10 folders on the right hold 10 songs each and can be named Ballad - Big Band etc. You need to swipe the screen to change the song but I have a good 5 seconds to do this when the intro is playing and the songs can be set to my song list. Just taking a look at it at the moment. Nice clear screen.

Makes me think why SongBook+ is so expensive, I mean this is $1

Pino

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[daleSP]

I have a SX900 and I use OnSong on my iPad with songs in the Chordpro text format (not PDF). I like the ability to transpose the chords in the song at will and the Chordpro format allows me to do this easily.

I have investigated integrating OnSong with the SX900 with the objective of having OnSong initiate a SX900 registration bank whenever I select a song file in OnSong. Also, I also wanted to go the other way, i.e, selecting a SX900 registration bank will trigger the corresponding OnSong file.

This is what I found:

- Selecting a SX900 (or Genos) registration bank is done using a special Sy*** Midi command now and not the MSB/LSB/PC method of the Tyros and older PSR keyboards.

- When a registration bank is selected on the SX900, the appropriate Sy*** Midi command is sent out externally by the SX900. This means that OnSong can listen for this Sy*** Midi command (using its Midi Receive trigger functionality) and then trigger/display the corresponding OnSong song file on the Ipad. *** PROBLEM *** see below

- Conversly, OnSong has the ability to send Midi commands whenever an OnSong song file is opened. This means that OnSong can send the appropriate Sy*** Midi command to the SX900 to activate the corresponding SX900 registration bank on the keyboard.

So the basic building blocks are available to integrate OnSong with the SX900 (and Genos) keyboards. I am assuming the same holds true for the SX700.


Here are the problems that I have encountered:

- OnSong does not have an "easy" way to capture the Sy*** Midi command emitted from the SX900 whenever a registration bank is selected. My definition of "easy" in this case is subjective as I think that Onsong can make this process even easier.

I do not have Songbook+ but I have researched it to understand how it does its integration with the Genos and SX700/900 keyboards. It seems that Songbook+ worked with Yamaha to understand the underlying technology and process and built functionality into the code such that its very easy to link a song in Songbook+ with the appropriate registration bank.

In OnSong, the linkage is created by opening a song in OnSong, editing its Metadata section and setting its Midi Send/Receive trigger to listen for Midi commands. Selecting a registration bank on the SX900 will send the appropriate Sy*** Midi command into OnSong and it will be associated with the song such that the song should open whenever that Sy*** Midi command is subsequently received from the SX900.

- Unfortunately, this does not work for Sy*** commands. Onsong will recognize Note Midi commands as Receive triggers but ignores Sy*** Midi commands.
I have reported this bug to Onsong in January 2020 but no resolution as yet !!

Bottom line: OnSong cannot open/display a song on receipt of a Sysyex Midi command sent by the SX900 when a registration bank is selected.

Strangely enough, OnSong is able to send the  Sy*** Midi command to the SX900 to select the corresponding registration bank whenever a song is opened.

So I have the ability now to open a song in OnSong and have the corresponding registration bank automatically be selected on the SX900. I can't go the other way yet but it will do for now.

[Patrick]

Hi Dale, i've the same result with Onsong but all my registration are now opened by Onsong; i've just renamed the registration and then its easy to add the songs to the registration with PC/MSB/LSB; I can open a song from my books ore from the main list of songs; still trying to select a registration on the SX900 to open a song without succes! I'll try again with sy*** midi commands! all the best Patrick

[AndiiRoo]

I'm just browsing this thread on a mobile on a camper holiday (so no PC or Genos with me as a reminder) but the way I do it, from memory, once you have:
1. set up numbered Registrations for songs,
2. made a basic cut-down midi template on the Genos to 'talk to' the iPad/OnSong
3. setup on MIDI B not A,
3. understood the Genos MIDI Multi Recording function, to set up a small song file containing the song's Program Change number,
4. Saved this midi 'song' to the song Registration
5. Not forgetting to then save the Registration itself,
then you only need two small metadata tag lines in each song's header in OnSong -
One to listen out in OnSong for Registration changes made on the Genos/Tyros etc, (which sends the song's Program Change Number to OnSong) and the other to send the data from a song selection change made in OnSong, to the Genos, for it to switch to the right Registration.
There are a number of little trip-ups along the way which can catch you out, but basically it is then very quick and easy to copy and and paste these two small lines into a new Chord & Lyrics song page or Score, then to alter the numbers, to quickly setup and link a good sized OnSong library and Set Lists.
The OnSong Consol on PC makes this extremely easy to do from the PC rather than the ipad.
On the Genos to add a new song midi file, I just load up any other songs' midi file, and change the PC number with the dial and resave the new file with the new song name.
I got halfway through a YouTube video on all this a year or two back, but I am not a YouTube expert and it got put back (as did a similar exercise on the Tyros before that    )
I would have thought it was all relevant to the SX900 but don't know for sure

[AndiiRoo]

As a personal preference thing, I add a line to a spreadsheet for every new song, example attached showing the metadata tags and numbering. Not the best example as it's a screenshot on my mobile of my Google Drive backup

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[daleSP]

I want to share an update to OnSong that has benefited me in its use with my PSR SX900.

Previously, I wrote in a post in this thread (July 27, 2020) about a bug in OnSong that prevented me from displaying a song in OnSong when a registration is loaded in the SX900.

To re-cap: In addition to the previous method of using a Midi MSB/LSB/PC command to select a registration bank/memory, the PSR SX and Genos keyboards also support the use of a Midi Sy*** command to do the same thing from an external source (e.g., OnSong, SongBook+, MobileSheets etc.) and vice versa.

The Midi Sy*** command contains the name and location of the registration bank and memory, basically the same information contained in a Playlist record entry.

The use of the Midi Sy*** command for selecting a registration eliminates the restrictions created by the old Midi MSB/LSB/PC command method, i.e., all registration banks must be in the same folder, all registration bank names in that folder have to be in alphabetical order and there was a maximum number limit of registration banks that could be in a folder.

With the use of the Midi Sy*** command method, registration banks can now be named anything, in no specific order, be located anywhere and no maximum number limit (subject to disk space). Additionally, registration banks do not have to have a Midi file attached containing a Midi command JUST to trigger an external source, e.g., to display a song in an external application.

Previously, OnSong could only send (i.e., outbound) the Midi Sy*** command to invoke a registration on the keyboard but couldn't accept (i.e, inbound) the Midi Sy*** comamnd issued by the keyboard when a registration is loaded in order to cause a song to be displayed on the iPad.

In update 2020.7.7 (and subsequent updates), OnSong will now accept Midi Sy*** commands as an inbound trigger for displaying a song.

This means that when a registration is loaded on the keyboard, the corresponding Midi Sy*** command is issued by the keyboard and if a song in OnSong is configured to accept that Midi Sy*** command (in the song's Midi Receive metadata section) then OnSong will display that song on the iPad.

(There is a still a small bug/annoyance in a song's Midi Receive metadata section in that only the first entry in the Receive list is actually used as the trigger even if there are multiple entries in the list. This issue has been reported to OnSong but it is not a showstopper, at least not for me).


So now, OnSong provides bi-directional support for Midi Sy*** commands as a triggering mechanism for the use of registrations on the Genos and PSR SX keyboards.

[Patrick]

Hi Dale, is it easy to load a song from a registration in Onsong (is there a link to the song button?) or we always have to go in the menu of Onsong and write the PC, MSB and LSB to configure Onsong? All the best Patrick

[AndiiRoo]

Thanks Dale, a useful feature that I'm looking forward to getting sometime, but unavailable at the moment to myself or anyone with older ipads still on v2020.5 so I am still using the method I outlined above

Starting with OnSong 2020.7,  sadly only iOS/iPadOS 13 and higher are supported by the app in order to benefit from the Midi Sy*** update

https://onsongapp.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360061319713-I-have-an-older-iOS-device-How-can-I-install-an-older-version-of-OnSong-on-it-

[daleSP]

Hi Dale, is it easy to load a song from a registration in Onsong (is there a link to the song button?) or we always have to go in the menu of Onsong and write the PC, MSB and LSB to configure Onsong? All the best Patrick

Hi @Patrick ...

Unfortunately, you still have to go into the specific song's Midi Receive metadata section in OnSong and setup the appropriate Midi Sy*** command that will be used to trigger the display of the song when the registration is loaded on the Yamaha Genos or PSR SX keyboard.

However, OnSong has a Midi Learn capability in the Midi Receive metadata section of the song that will assist in configuring the Midi Sy*** command.

Whenever a registration is loaded on the keyboard, the keyboard emits the appropriate Midi Sy*** command for that registration. If the Midi Learn capability is enabled for the song, then the Midi Sy*** command emitted by the keyboard will be automatically captured by OnSong and assigned to the song in its Midi Receive metadata section. So you don't have to manually type in that Midi Sy*** command (which is not for the faint of heart) 

PS: These newer keyboards (Genos and PSR SX) utilize the newer Midi Sy*** command method to load registrations. I think they still support the older PC/MSB/LSB method but the Sy*** method provides much greater flexibility in where the registration bank files can be located on the keyboard.

[Patrick]

Hi Dale thank you, i will try again this afternoon; all the best Patrick

[AndiiRoo]

I think they still support the older PC/MSB/LSB method but the Sy*** method provides much greater flexibility.

Yes they do, but you can avoid this; a quick & easy shortcut to add songs is to paste two small metadata tags on the top of each song as indicated before, giving you all you need to link two way selections between OnSong and Genos Registrations. Here's a quick illustration pic, hope it's of interest to someone
  - The spreadsheet is only for my own info, and for me to be able to sort it on any column e.g. Titles, Registration Numbers, Styles I use, Tempos etc etc, which is a usefully quick way to display my library in different ways and views
  - On ipad, the OnSong main song display page, and also it's edit page showing the meta tags (this is very easy to do with the Console on PC rather than edit on the ipad)



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