PSR-E363 : does it transmit accompaniment data along with the user performance ?

[pquenin]

The manual is not clear on what is transmited by the USB to HOST MIDI OUT.
There was something about this in the manual of its predecessor (E353) but I don't find the same in the E363 Manual.
I need this information before buying this instrument that seems otherwise perfect ...

[SeaGtGruff]

On the PSR-E models there are usually settings in the function menu that let you select which parts you want the keyboard to transmit over its MIDI connection:

- "PC mode" lets you select between a few predetermined configurations.
- "KbdOut" lets you decide whether or not to transmit the keyboard parts (i.e., Main Voice, Dual Voice, and Split Voice).
- "StyleOut" lets you decide whether or not to transmit the various style parts (i.e., Drums, Bass, etc.).
- "SongOut" lets you decide whether or not to transmit the various song parts (but only for user-recorded songs).

You are correct, there is nothing in the manual about these, and they are not included in the PSR-E363's function menu!

However, on page 48 there is a note that says "Song, Style and keyboard performance data are transmitted to an external device via MIDI by playing the Song or Style, or by playing the keyboard. As for Songs, only User Song data can be transmitted to an external device via MIDI by playing back the Song."

So it would appear that the PSR-E363 does indeed transmit the style parts, although someone who actually has one would need to verify this.

But there are no longer any functions that let you decide which types of parts you want to transmit-- perhaps because those functions were thought to be too confusing to the majority of PSR-E3xx owners?

So if you feel that you need to be able to control which types of parts to transmit, you might want to get the next model up (PSR-E453), or possibly the previous model (PSR-E353).

However, the PSR-E353 doesn't have the individual "KbdOut," "StyleOut," and "SongOut" functions as the PSR-E4xx models do, just the "PC mode" function.

[pquenin]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, this is what I have also read in the manuals, but I have still a doubt...
In my local store I have seen a PSR-E453 for 250€, a bit more that my budget, but very tempting.
Or maybe a Casio CTK-4400, it has all the E363 have and more, but I have never seen or touch a real one...

I'm still interested in knowing if the E363 can transmit the accompaniment data...

[pquenin]

I have played a little with the E453 this midday at the store... and there are pros and cons against the E363.
Pros (for me) : a pitchwheel, better HPs, more tracks in the sequencer, USB to DEVICE, more control on the accompaniment.
Cons (for me) : heavier, the same basic AWM sounds, +70€

The weight is the big problem for me with this keyboard, so I don't know what to do as of now.

[SeaGtGruff]

I don't have the PSR-E453, but I find my PSR-E443, PSR-E433, and YPT-400 (a.k.a. PSR-E403) to be reasonably light-- that is, I can pick them up with one hand and carry them like a suitcase, and I am not a strong man.

I haven't played the CTK-4400, but I used to have a CTK-710 and its tones sounded very similar to a WK-810 that my nephew has-- the same, really, except that the CTK-710 has far fewer tones, doesn't have reverb, etc.-- so I think all of the CTK and WK models use the same tone generator technology. Anyway, I thought that a few of the tones on my CTK-710 sounded fine-- for instance, I liked the acoustic piano and electric piano tones, as well as some of the others-- but I found many of the tones to be unsatisfactory to my ears. When I first got my PSR-E433 I spent a good deal of time comparing its voices with the equivalent tones on my CTK-710, and I thought that the PSR-E433 won hands down.

[pquenin]

Thank you for your feedback on the Casio sounds. I have seen a blind test on Youtube, and to my ears the piano sound of the Casio is better, but don't know about the others sounds, so it's good to have your opinion.

Can I ask another question about PSR TUTORIAL ? Are the ressources here on the PSR Turorial site for the "big" PSR machines only, or can owners of cheap PSR like the E363 take advantage of what is there ?

[SeaGtGruff]

Yes, I thought the Acoustic Grand Piano tone sounded very good on my old CTK-710. In fact, when I compared the CTK-710 and PSR-E433 side-by-side I actually thought the Casio sounded "cleaner" than the Yamaha-- although I think that's because the CTK-710 didn't have reverb, whereas Yamaha usually has the reverb turned on and turned up a bit for their preset voices. It's funny, but I generally prefer little-to-no reverb for certain types of voices-- such as the acoustic piano-- whereas some people seem to prefer those same voices with some reverb added, so go figure! Anyway, I think I turned off the Yamaha's reverb to get a "fairer" comparison between it and the Casio, but I don't remember which one I liked better in that situation. In any case, Yamaha's sounds are generally much better than those of the Casio CTK/WK models.

As for your question about this site, many of the lessons simply won't apply to the PSR-E models, or will apply to only a very minor extent, due to the differences between the PSR-E models and the PSR-S models with respect to things like the panel controls, the screen display and function menu, the degree of complexity (or lack of same) in the registrations, the music database and OTS features, etc. That doesn't mean you can't benefit from the lessons, because some of them might contain general tips or advice that would be helpful to know, although the specifics might need to be modified to account for the simpler feature set and interface of the PSR-E models. To be honest, I haven't watched the lessons, so I can't speak intelligibly about them.

However, you should certainly be able to benefit from the style collections on the main site, as well as the individual style files and song files that members have posted in the forum. But you should be aware that in many cases you won't be able to use the style files "as is," because they are SFF2 files whereas the PSR-E models can play only SFF1 files. You can still use the SFF2 files, but first you'll need to use the "Style Format 2 Converter" utility from Jørgen Sørensen to change the SFF2 files into SFF1 files. One of the nice features of this utility is that you can run it on an entire folder of style files, rather than having to process each file individually, and it will automatically convert any SFF2 files in that folder while skipping any SFF1 files.

Another thing you'll want to do is "revoice" the style files and song files so they don't try to use any voices that don't exist on your particular PSR-E model. In many cases this won't be absolutely necessary, because Yamaha's XG system is designed such that if a style or song tries to use a voice that doesn't exist on a given model, the keyboard will usually fall back to whichever GM1 voice has the same Program Change value as the requested voice. But in certain cases the "missing" voice will result in silence rather than falling back to the equivalent GM1 voice. And even if the style or song plays okay (i.e., no "silent" voices), you'll probably still want to revoice the file so it picks the best possible voices for each part. For example, it's not uncommon for files to use GM1 voices so they'll be compatible with the greatest number of keyboard models-- and in the case of song files, not just models from a particular manufacturer such as Yamaha, but also models from other manufacturers such as Casio, Korg, and Roland. So even if all of the voices that are used in the file are voices which exist on your given keyboard, there may very well be better-sounding voices available on your keyboard-- or you might simply prefer to use a different voice for a given part, such as a Nylon String Guitar rather than a Steel String Guitar, or a Trombone rather than a Trumpet, etc. And you might also want to tweak other settings in the file, such as the volume and panning of the voices, or the type and amount of reverb, etc. These sorts of revoicing changes are best done on a case-by-case basis rather than in bulk with a batch process, but you don't need to revoice all of your style files and song files at once; you can work on just the one(s) you want to use at that particular time.

[pquenin]

Thank you for taking the time to write this very detailled answer 
I'm interested by creating style files so I will take a look at all the tools available for this task, and maybe write one myself...

[SeaGtGruff]

You're welcome! And I hope you create a lot of nice styles.

Back to your original question, I'm fairly certain the PSR-E363 must output MIDI data for the styles and user songs, and that the "PC mode" function must have been removed because Yamaha deemed it unnecessary and/or confusing.

But I do encourage you to consider the PSR-E453 as having more options than the PSR-E363.

By the way, when I mentioned picking up the keyboard with one hand, the body at the very front of the keyboard, immediately below the keys, is curved in such a way that it's easy to grab and pick up the keyboard with one hand using that curved part. To me, that's the ideal way to move the keyboard (if it isn't in a bag or the box), because the curved part is like a handle and the back portion of the keyboard is a lot heavier than the front portion, so carrying it that way like a suitcase puts the heavier portion down toward the floor-- i.e., so it's bottom-heavy rather than top-heavy-- and assuming you've grabbed the "handle" near the center of the keyboard then the weight is evenly distributed from one end to the other.

[AnupamEnosh]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, this is what I have also read in the manuals, but I have still a doubt...
In my local store I have seen a PSR-E453 for 250€, a bit more that my budget, but very tempting.
Or maybe a Casio CTK-4400, it has all the E363 have and more, but I have never seen or touch a real one...

I have tried the CTK 4400/860IN and my conclusion is that similar priced models of Yamaha (E363) pack in less features/controls, but in terms of output, the latter outperforms the former. Though a few points are noteworthy, that (1.) Casio has better Piano and Bass sounds, and a much wide selection of voices in different categories is available, (2.) Yamaha voices have more reverb (3.) After E343/433, Yamaha totally replaced its shiny smooth keybed with mildly rough or not-so-soft keys, so that feel goes missing, while Casio retains it same shiny keybed, it has its own downside, (4.) Yamaha lacks EPs and (5.) This is my personal opinion, Yamaha is much better aimed solo instrument, than a Casio, in my country learners prefer Casio due to its cheaper price, but intermediate level players blindly go for Yamaha, or better options.

[pquenin]

@SeaGtGruff : yes, I think the E363 output all the data, and for now it's my prefered choice upon the E453. I have tried to pick up the latter and yes, the back is far heavier than the front, and I got that feeling it can easly fall due to mishandling.

@AnupamEnoch : thank you for your feedback on the Casios, much appreciated. The CTK-4400 has not the USB to HOST audio, don't really know if it's a real problem... It has an internal style editor, and that's a good point.

[pquenin]

Maybe some of you have the answer : when you record your performance on an internal track of PSR-E363 or PSR-E453, are the pichbend , modulation or other Midi controller data stored too ? Or only the notes ?
I have a little 25 keys midi controller with the 2 wheels and a few rotary buttons that I can surely connect to the main Yamaha keyboard via USB, to add live to my performance, but I wonder if I can record this...

[SeaGtGruff]

You can record events that are generated by the keyboard, but I don't think the song sequencer will record events coming from an external source. However, I'm not sure about that.

[pquenin]

Ok I think you are right. So on the e453 only pichbend and sustain are recorded along with notes, right ?

There is a difference here between Yamaha and Casio documentation : all theses details are clearly indicated in Casio manuals, and not in the Yamaha ones....

[SeaGtGruff]

The PSR-E models will record nearly all of the events generated by the keyboard itself, and on the PSR-E4xx models this includes the use of the Pitch Bend wheel and the Live Control knobs. The manual lists any events which cannot be recorded (such as the use of the Split Voice), as well as which events or settings can be recorded only at the beginning of the song (such as the Style Number).

My understanding is that the issue of not being able to record external events sent to the keyboard has to do with not being able to assign a MIDI In channel to a specific part-- such as the Main Voice or Dual Voice-- as is possible on the PSR-S, Tyros, and Genos models.

However, note that Yamaha has a Sound Controller app for the iPad which might be able to affect the parts on the keyboard, and if so then it might be possible to record events being sent by that app; I'll try it to see if it works.

[pquenin]

Thank you SGG, if you can do the test with the iPad app, that wiil be great... it seems that this app can send Modulation events (CC 01) for instance... Curious to know if it can be recorded into the track...
The more I think about it, the more I think it will be preferable for me to buy the E343 instaed of the E363...

[pquenin]

So, I just bought a PSR-E453 (240 €) in a local store. So I have no more questions about the E363 ;-)
I have made some researchs on how to create styles, It's looks not so simple... But I will do...

[SeaGtGruff]

Congratulations on your purchase! I hope you're happy with it.

[pquenin]

I have seen in another subject that you bought a PSR-EW400, so congratulations to you too ;-)
It was funny because I also have to "hide" this keyboard somewhere...