Recording Accessories Query

[AnupamEnosh]

Greetings to Everyone here, the year is about to end.
Well I have a query regarding a budget recording setup for my PSR E453. I am planning to upload my Keys cover on social media (no vocals, only instrumental). I expect a good audio quality, in stereo that captures all effects applied to the voices. Right now I have nothing except my Android smartphone and the instrument itself. What else can I do, please suggest ? e.g. which cables are required, do I need to buy some soundcard, external mic or if a ZOOM H1 Recorder is enough for recording ? Can I record my instrument audio directly to my Android, if yes then how should I do that ? Please reply in details.

[SciNote]

I've never tried to record digital audio to a smartphone, so I'm not sure if it can be done.  However, I have an Amazon Kindle Fire, which uses an operating system similar to Android, and I believe I have seen recording software available for it, so it may very well be possible.  However, if so, I don't know how good the quality would be.  I imagine that since everything is just being done in the digital realm with the E453 having a built in USB-to-audio feature that already converts the sound to a stream of data, the sound quality would not be an issue since the phone would just be recording a data stream of numbers.

So, if this is possible, you'll first need an app capable of recording the stereo digital audio stream through the phone's USB port, if there isn't already one on your phone.  And, you'll need to figure out how you're going to do the recording to determine which app you'll need.  If you plan to just simply record whatever is on the keyboard in one shot and be done with it, a basic stereo recorder should be fine.  If you plan to "lay down" additional tracks of music directly on the phone, then the app will need this capability to record individual tracks of music while you listen to previously recorded tracks of the song to allow you to build up more complex recordings.

If you do the multi-track recording, you'll have to make sure there is a way for you to hear what you've already recorded so you can play along with it while recording new tracks.  I imagine this would be possible through the built in speaker or headphone jack on the phone, but you'd have to check to make sure.  You also want to make sure that the new track will contain only the new material you are playing and recording for it, and not also re-record the music you're listening to and playing along with.

Also, if you do multi-track recording on the smartphone, it may be necessary to correct the timing of the tracks after you record them due to something called "latency".  Latency is essentially the time delay between you recording your playing on a new track while listening to the previously-recorded material on the smartphone, and the app's processing of your recording of the new data for the new track.  This can result in your new track sounding off beat compared to the original track you played along with.  The multi-track recording app should have a feature to correct this.

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT: If you can get this software, check any necessary settings in the app and on the phone and make sure they are set to record in STEREO and not mono.  I have been recording on a PC, and for over 3 years, I had been recording in mono and never realized it until earlier this year due to the settings on my computer.  Making that correction has made a world of difference in sound quality.

Also, as most smartphones do not have a standard-sized USB port, you'll need a cable that goes from the standard sized port on the E453 to whatever type of port is on your smartphone.

Alternately, if what you need is not available for your smartphone, you can get a low-cost laptop computer -- mine cost about $150 US -- and use that for your recording.  Just make sure it has enough memory and storage for your needs.  I have a Windows 10 computer, and I use a free recording program called Audacity for the recording, which is available on the internet.  All of the other tips above about stereo settings, multi-track recording, and latency also apply when using a laptop.

[AnupamEnosh]

Right now I have very less idea of how the recording works, so I will most probably stick to live play and record, like a basic piano cover; untill I get used to this task, multitrack recording won't be possible for me. So getting into the post, I need :
1. A USB type B to type A cable
2. USB OTG cable for Android
3. A voice recording compatible app
Otherwise
A laptop with Audacity app installed.

If you do the multi-track recording, you'll have to make sure there is a way for you to hear what you've already recorded so you can play along with it while recording new tracks.  I imagine this would be possible through the built in speaker or headphone jack on the phone, but you'd have to check to make sure.  You also want to make sure that the new track will contain only the new material you are playing and recording for it, and not also re-record the music you're listening to and playing along with.

Does it mean that the onboard speakers of the instrument stops working while it is connected to any device through USB to Host port ?
If yes, then how could an app record and play audio at the same time, is that possible ? Because I want to do live playing, so it is mandatory for me to listen to the stuff I would be playing.

[SciNote]

Right now I have very less idea of how the recording works, so I will most probably stick to live play and record, like a basic piano cover; untill I get used to this task, multitrack recording won't be possible for me. So getting into the post, I need :
1. A USB type B to type A cable
2. USB OTG cable for Android
3. A voice recording compatible app
Otherwise
A laptop with Audacity app installed.
Does it mean that the onboard speakers of the instrument stops working while it is connected to any device through USB to Host port ?
If yes, then how could an app record and play audio at the same time, is that possible ? Because I want to do live playing, so it is mandatory for me to listen to the stuff I would be playing.

I'm not sure what an OTG cable is.  What is that?

I do not think the speakers will stop playing when you're using the E453's audio-USB recording, but I am not sure because I've never tried it.  I have a PSR-E433, which does not have built-in audio-USB.  So, I use an external device that converts analog audio to USB data, and then hook that to the computer.  The analog audio is coming from my keyboard's headphone jack, so when that is in use, yes, the speakers on my keyboard stop playing.  However, the audio-USB device I'm using has an audio output so that I can hear what is being played from the computer and keyboard while I record additional tracks.  If I just hook that audio output to an independent, dedicated amp and speaker system, then that is fine.  But if it is routed through the same mixer/amp set-up that also is part of the audio chain providing the audio to the computer, then any tracks that I previously recorded get mixed in with the new track that I would now be recording, along with my keyboard playing for the new track, which I do not want to have happen.

Most DAW (digital audio workstation) apps can, indeed, record and play at the same time.  That is the idea of "laying down tracks."  You record one track, such as a bass line.  Then, you go back and play the bass line track on the DAW, so that while you're listening to the bass line track you recorded, the app also allows you to record a new track of music, such as a piano melody track, to go long with the bass line.  This allows you to build up a song with multiple parts of music that you do not have to play yourself at the same time, so that by the time you are done, it sounds like a whole band or orchestra is playing.

Your E453 has this capability built in, with its 6-track sequencer, and that is a great tool to get a multi-track song started.  But it has limitations, such as the fact that if you make a mistake while playing, you have to re-record the entire track, not just the measure with the mistake.  And the sequencer on the keyboard is not recording actual audio -- it is only recording the data for the notes you play, to tell the keyboard what notes and sounds to play when the song is played back (like a super-high-tech player piano).  So, if your recording gets too complex, you can run out of polyphony and not all the notes will play back.  But when the audio is sent to a DAW on the phone or computer, then the polyphony is not an issue, because now you're doing the recording on the DAW, not the keyboard's sequencer.

Since you said you just want to play "live" for now and not do multi-track recording, this will not be a concern for you initially.  But over time, you may want to experiment with multi-track recording.

When you say a "voice recording compatible app", I assume you are talking about the app that would record music from the keyboard.  I just point this out because, I imagine there are some very simple "voice recording" apps that would just simply record your voice through the phone's microphone (for recording voice memos, for example), and of course, you need something more capable than that.  You need something that will record stereo audio through the USB port of your phone or computer.

If you use a laptop, keep in mind there are a variety of choices for DAW software, but yes, I use Audacity.  I have not tried any other programs, however.

[SeaGtGruff]

OTG = On The Go. It refers to USB connectivity, and is a standard or specification or technology (I'm a bit fuzzy on it, myself) that allows a device-- in this case, an Android phone or tablet-- to act as either a USB device or host. (I hope I said that right!) If I understand correctly, mobile devices with older versions of Android didn't usually have USB host capability built in, so if you wanted to connect a USB device (such as a keyboard) to it then you'd not only need the right kind of connector but also an app that added USB OTG to the mobile device. I think newer versions of Android have USB OTG capability already built in, so you don't need to install an app for it, but you still need the right kind of connector.

This hasn't been an issue with iOS mobile devices, at least not beyond the need for the right kind of connector (Camera Connection Kit or USB-to-Lightning adapter), because the ability to act as a USB host has been in iOS all along, or if not from the beginning then at least from a very early version.

[SeaGtGruff]

I just found out that the n-Track DAW has a version for Android (n-Track Studio 8 Music DAW, available in the Google Play Store), so you might want to install it and check it out. I don't have an OTG cable for my Nook HD+, but I can boot it up in Android 4.4.2, and I should be able to connect it to my keyboards via Wi-Fi (keyboards connected to Windows computer via USB, and rtpMIDI running in Windows). If I can get that up and running, I might conceivably be able to help you learn the basics of making simple multi-track recordings in n-Track.

Edit: Actually, there might be some simpler and less expensive apps. Let me see if I can get things connected and I'll try out some of them.

[vbdx66]

Hi Anupa,

Although the Android option should be viable, if you do have a laptop, connecting the USB to Host port of the keyboard to any USB port of the laptop with a printer cable would be the easiest solution. If you simply want to record what you are playing in good, stereo quality to share it with your friends, I'd suggest using Audacity, which is completely free and very easy to use.

As others already mentioned, since the PSR E 453 has a built in digital audio interface, you do not need any particular soundcard because actually the keyboard will be transmitting bits of data, not audio.

To monitor what you are recording, you can use either a good pair of headphones or the onboard speakers: as the keyboard output at this stage is consisting of data and not of audio, the keyboard speakers will not be muted.

Hope this helps,

Best Regards,

Vinciane.

[SandeepSaxena]

Greetings to Everyone here, the year is about to end.
Well I have a query regarding a budget recording setup for my PSR E453. I am planning to upload my Keys cover on social media (no vocals, only instrumental). I expect a good audio quality, in stereo that captures all effects applied to the voices. Right now I have nothing except my Android smartphone and the instrument itself. What else can I do, please suggest ? e.g. which cables are required, do I need to buy some soundcard, external mic or if a ZOOM H1 Recorder is enough for recording ? Can I record my instrument audio directly to my Android, if yes then how should I do that ? Please reply in details.

Hi Anupam, In my opinion also consider an Audio interface. Behringer audio interfaces are affordable. I bought one  a few weeks ago and it works very well with Audacity. BTW: Some of the Behringer audio interfaces do come with a license key for Tracktion 7.
So do other brands. They provide a license key to popular DAW's in the market.   You can research these out.
Sandeep

[AnupamEnosh]

Thanks to everyone for the valuable inputs. Well, I somehow managed to connect a Laptop, but I don't understand why it is not recognizing the USB device. I tried installing all drivers, but in vain. As per Michael Sir's post, I got to know that Yamaha Keyboards' HOST port is class compliant, but that didn't work for me. Also, whenever I connect my instrument (power off) to Laptop, then the blue light of display turns half on, but then powering the instrument doesn't turn it on ! I believe the Laptop is sending 5V power to the Keyboard, but still confused, as if why the instrument does not turn ON afterwards. Is there some issue ?

[SeaGtGruff]

Just out of curiosity, are you using batteries or a power adapter to power the keyboard?

EDIT: Also, what operating system does the laptop use-- Windows, MacOS, Linux, etc.-- and is it a 32-bit or 64-bit OS?

[SeaGtGruff]

Sandeep, I also use an inexpensive Behringer audio interface (UCA222). One of the reasons I bought it was because it came with a license for Tracktion, and the price for that version of Tracktion was the same as the price for the interface! One thing to note, though, is that the Behringer interface takes RCA inputs, so you'd need to get a 1/4"-TRS-to-stereo-RCA adapter or cable; I ordered one at the same time that I ordered the interface, and it works great!

EDIT: However, the PSR-E453 already has built-in USB audio output, so you shouldn't need to buy an interface-- although the Behringer UCA222 is so inexpensive that it makes a nice thing to have on hand, anyway. Just be aware that if you do need to install the USB device driver for the keyboard that you'll need the driver that includes USB-audio as well as USB-MIDI; it includes "Steinberg" in its description:

https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/yamaha_steinberg_usb_driver_win_dp.html

[AnupamEnosh]

I use only Power adaptor for my keyboard, which was bundled in by Yamaha, PA-150B.
The Laptop is based on Win 10 64-bit.

[SeaGtGruff]

Okay. I'm not sure why the keyboard is drawing power from the computer through the USB connection, but it sounds like that might be the culprit, since it seems to be interfering with your ability to power up the keyboard as expected.

You could try the following to see if it helps:

(1) Turn off the keyboard's "Audio Loop Back" function, just to see if it makes a difference.

(2) Turn off the keyboard (the setting of the "Audio Loop Back" function will be saved in memory) and disconnect the power adapter from the power outlet (but leave it connected to the keyboard).

(3) Use a USB 2.0 (not 3.0) cable to connect the keyboard to a USB 2.0 (not 3.0) port on the laptop, and see if the screen still lights up as before.

(4) Plug the power adapter back in and see if the keyboard can be turned on normally.

(5) If you find that you need to install the USB driver, make sure you install the "Steinberg" driver for 64-bit Windows, and don't try to install it unless you've already got the keyboard successfully connected and turned on, otherwise the driver installation program won't be able to detect it as needed and set it up.

[AnupamEnosh]

Still unable to figure out anything, this is what appears on the screen, and connection still doesn't work. And the keyboard is still drawing power from the USB device.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[SeaGtGruff]

Is that with the power adapter unplugged and the keyboard drawing power through the USB connection?

The icon in the upper left corner of the screen indicates that the keyboard is using battery power. Haver you verified that there are no batteries plugged into it?

If so, I guess the keyboard thinks that the power coming through the USB connection is from batteries.

[AnupamEnosh]

Sir as I already mentioned, I only use Power adaptor for the keyboard, but whenever I connect a USB device, it shows this battery Icon. Once I unplug the USB, it again goes to Adaptor mode (displays the adaptor icon as power source), and everything is normal again. I bought this printer USB cable from local market which costed me hardly 1$ approx, and it fits perfectly into the USB slot, though it is a USB 2.0 cable only. I have not put any batteries into the battery compartment. I am worried if my keyboard is faulty, or I am doing something in the wrong manner, because I don't know if my instrument is acting weirdly, or there is some issue underneath.

[SciNote]

This does sound quite odd.  I've never tried to use the USB-to-host on my PSR-E433, so I did a little research to see what may be going on.  I found nothing definitive, but a few things come to mind.

First of all, I know you're using a power adaptor, but is it the one recommended for your keyboard, or at least one with the same voltage and current specifications?  If not, one possibility is that, by engaging USB-to-host, the keyboard is not getting enough power for that operation and is reverting to the battery mode, even though no batteries are present.

Also, I checked the online manual about connecting my keyboard to a computer.  It is a multi-model manual that also mentions the E453, so I would suspect that the information found there can apply to the E453.  Among its details are instructions to use an "AB" type USB cable that is less than 3 meters long and that is NOT a USB 3.0 cable (and I realize you said you're using a 2.0 cable), to exit the computer from any kind of power-saving mode (like suspend, sleep, or stand-by) before hooking up the cable, and to make the connection to the computer BEFORE turning on the power to the instrument.

Once the keyboard is hooked to the computer, the online manual says that if you have to do any of the following operations, to wait at least 6 seconds:
-- turning the power of the instrument off and then on again
-- alternately connecting/disconnecting the USB cable

Additionally, when I looked in the printed manual for my E433, I found there is a mode in the function menu called "PC Mode" that is for the USB-to-host terminal.  It says it can be set to "OFF", "PC1", or "PC2" and it is described as "Optimizes the MIDI settings when you connect to a computer" -- but I have not been able to find any other details about what this actually does.  If this function is on the E453, you may want to experiment with it or try to see if you can find any more details about it, but again, I have no idea what it actually does other than the brief description supplied.

Finally, if nothing else works, you may want to check with the store where you bought your E453 and see if they'll let you take your computer and cable to the store and hook it up to their demo E453 to see if it behaves the same way or not.

[SeaGtGruff]

Bob, I don't think the power adapter is the problem, especially if this happens when the adapter is unplugged.

The "PC Mode" function is a shortcut way of turning the "Keyboard Out," "Song Out," and "Style Out" functions on or off en masse, hence the "PC Mode" setting that you choose will affect which types of MIDI data get transmitted to the attached computer device, but I don't think this function-- or the individual functions which it affects-- should influence whether or not the keyboard draws power through the USB connection.

AnupamEnosh, the reason I asked about the batteries is because I wanted to make sure there aren't any old rundown batteries in the battery compartment that you didn't realize were in there-- especially if, for example, you had purchased a "demo" or "open box" keyboard from the store, and someone had put batteries in it before you purchased it. But if there were rundown batteries in the compartment then I suppose the display would show the icon for a low-power or dead battery.

At this point, the best course of action would be to contact Yamaha and ask if the PSR-E453 is designed to draw power through the USB To Host connection; and if it isn't, but a particular PSR-E453 is doing just that, then does it indicate a defect?

I have a MIDI keyboard controller that draws power from the USB connection, but it has a power switch which turns the keyboard on and off while it's connected to the computer. Even if the PSR-E453 is drawing power from the USB connection, I'm thinking it shouldn't be turning itself on; it should be staying off unless or until you try to turn it on. So perhaps there's a problem with its Standby/On switch?

On the other hand, if it's a cheap USB cable that wasn't manufactured to strict specifications and quality control, I suppose the problem might possibly be caused by the cable-- but I'd be surprised if it were.