MULTI PADS

[Will49]

Hi everyone. One section of my recently acquired Tyros 5/76 that I had hoped would have been revamped considerably is the Multi Pads section... but that's not been the case! Why then does this section of top Yamaha arrangers seem to be so much neglected? Yesterday, I tried some of the Genos Multi Pads in my T5 (originally made available by Dusan in response to Jeff Hollande on the 'Genos Styles/OTS/Multi Pads' board), only to find that most seem to be identical to what I already have in T5... as well as what I even had in T4 before it! It appears, therefore, that all Yamaha seem to do from one model to the next is load them up with mostly old ones that have done the rounds on the previous models over many years - except for perhaps a small handful that could be called 'new'! I make a tremendous amount of use of Multi Pads, and 90% of them are what I've downloaded from this site – and hardly any of the on-board ones! Like I said to Jeff Hollande in the aforementioned thread:

....a professional musician (a Korg user) I happen to know personally once told me that Korg's Multi Pads are far more useable than the Yamaha ones. She said that Korg has many nice loops (as opposed to the one-hit type) that fit very nicely with the on-board styles (perhaps other Korg owners will confirm?). Multi Pads are something I use a lot, and I think it's a pity that Yamaha don't concentrate more on this aspect of their keyboards. Whilst on this subject, how many 3/4 Multi Pads are there inside Yamaha arrangers?!! Not many... in fact, none that I know of! I remember seeing or hearing a comment where someone (I think it may have been Andrew Gilbert?) referred to the absence of 3/4 Multi Pads when reviewing one of the Tyroses, and said something like... "don't they waltz in Japan?"!

Does anyone know of any professionally-created Multi Pads that are designed to work on T5? If Yamaha made better/more useable ones than the on-board ones, and made them available from their website, then I would gladly pay for them!


Regards,
Will

[XeeniX]

Hi Will,

I can not compare the yamaha pads with korg pads since I never heard or used those. I do know however that the Genos has quite a few new multi pads. And these new pads to me sound like some sort of mini-styles on itself. Where on the T5 for example the steelguitar pads only consist of usually 4 different patterns played by duhh a steelguitar. And usually only one will be used at the same time (using more wil not mix, making them too "present") these new steelguitar pads although still being pretty simple loops were mixed and created to act as a whole. 2 first pads being guitars and the two last pads being rhythm parts. They can enrich a style big time. I only checked the steelguitar and acoustic guitar pads btw. So I don't even know what all the EDM pads would do. A Genos owener might perhaps be willing to tell you. It's not a really huge amount of new pads nor a really revolutionary change but to me they sound better and more useful then the ones on T4 and T5.

I do not know for sure if there are any professional multi pad builders on the market but I doubt it. I know there are a few people on this forum quite capable of creating really nice pads though. Since these pads only have short loops and one voice/drumkit per pad button they shouldn't be so difficult to create. Have you ever tried experimenting with for example padmaker midi or padmaker audio written by Michael Bedesem? You can pick measures from any midi or audio file you want and create new pads with those in a easy nice graphical interface. Also editing your existing ones by switching parts to other multi pads can be done there. It could be quite interesting for you to try especially since you are probably very motivated if you use them that much.

kind regards,
Peter

[Will49]

.....Genos has quite a few new multi pads. And these new pads to me sound like some sort of mini-styles on itself....

Hello Peter. Many thanks for pointing that out. I shall certainly have another look at them, as it appears that there are some among them that I've not yet seen.

Have you ever tried experimenting with for example padmaker midi or padmaker audio written by Michael Bedesem? You can pick measures from any midi or audio file you want and create new pads with those in a easy nice graphical interface.

Afraid I haven't, but that sounds interesting and something that I will be very keen to look further into. Many thanks for the heads-up! 👍

Kind regards,
Will

[karmacomposer]

Can't find Padmaker Audio at all and nowhere in the Tyros 5 manual does it mention the ability to convert audio files to multipads.

Multi track song files, yes. But not multipads.

I have all kinds of loopable wav files I created and would LOVE to convert to a Tyros compatible version.  If possible, please tell me how.

Mike

[tyrosaurus]

'PadMaker Midi' is a third party computer program for PC by Michael Bedesem (Hell will be totally frozen over before Yamaha release, or include on their keyboards, anything as useful as this!)   

Here is a link from which you can download the program...

https://www.psrtutorial.com/MB/padmakermidi.html


Regards

Ian

[XeeniX]

Aargh padmaker audio was my mistake! There are two version of padmaker of which one is called padmaker midi. The other one (recently updated btw to support Genos) is just called padmaker. I accidentally called it padmaker audio.
Audio loops can still be used through multi pads by creating an audio linked multi pad but they aren't capable of following  chords for example like midi multi pads can. Sorry for getting your hopes up by mistake

Peter

[karmacomposer]

Question is, can audio files in multipads be looped?

Also, in Padmaker I don't see any option to load a audio file and then save it as a multipad.

Anyone able to do this?  How?

Mike

[Joe H]

It is my observation that Yamaha incorporate some new features in the arranger from other Yamaha product. Examples of this include, Live control, an arpeggiator, Ensemble, and audio link Multi Pad.  The audio link Multi Pad was first incorporated in Yamaha dance keyboards in the 1990s as "Audio Clips" on boards like the CS6x.  The intent was to add short audio "sound effects" (noises).  You could buy CDs of audio clips.

The Multi Pads for the Genos are organized differently than on previous model arrangers and are intended to be used as substitute style Parts. They are indeed "mini styles" (combination Multi Pads). I think they got the idea from yours truly...   I've been creating those kind of Multi Pads for years.

But Yamaha does not explain anything about how to use any new feature in their manuals. Maybe they do in the Youtube videos, but many miss these presentations.

I sincerely hope Yamaha tech support start actively participating in this and other forums and demonstrate that they care about the customers' questions and concerns about the new product we have purchased.

Joe H

[Will49]

Question is, can audio files in multipads be looped? Also, in Padmaker I don't see any option to load a audio file and then save it as a multipad.

Hi Mike, The way I understand it is that an Audio file is not actually created or saved within a Multi Pad slot, so an Audio file is never "in" a Multi Pad location at all. Audio files are in the Audio Recorder/Player, but a Multi Pad buton can be programmed to start/stop playback of an Audio file of your choice from the Audio Recorder/Player via the 'AUDIO LINK' button (bottom of Multi Pad screen).

Regards,
Will

[karmacomposer]

Hi Mike, The way I understand it is that an Audio file is not actually created or saved within a Multi Pad slot, so an Audio file is never "in" a Multi Pad location at all. Audio files are in the Audio Recorder/Player, but a Multi Pad buton can be programmed to start/stop playback of an Audio file of your choice from the Audio Recorder/Player via the 'AUDIO LINK' button (bottom of Multi Pad screen).

Regards,
Will

OK.  Interesting.  I have a product called GrooveBlox that are two measure grooves of all types.  These are essentially looped wav files that are seamless.  I would like to experiment and see if they can be used with the audiolink feature to work AND be tempo sync'd properly with the style that is playing.  Man, if this works, it will be sooooo cool.

Mike

[Joe H]

Mike,

You might try converting them to REX2 files by importing them in YEM.  The YEM software will let us convert the REX2 files to both Multi Pads and Style Parts... that will loop as you would like them to do.

Regards,
Joe H

[Moontom]

doesn't the Genos have an arpeggiator? when I looked before introduction the manual suggested that many of the arps in the 970 were on board.

not quite the same as multi-pads but for some parts -- percussion, etc. -- it might be serviceable?

I'd be curious to read any reactions from Genos users on the arpeggio feature....

[EileenL]

Yes it dose and there are more than on 970.

[karmacomposer]

So I copied my grooveblox audio files to my usb stick and loaded some in using audiolink.  Very unpredictable results, yet all files are the same 16bit wav files at 44.1khz

They do play instantly, which is great. Unfortunately, you can only seem to play one audiolink multipad at a time, which is a shame.  These were meant to mix and match together to make really cool grooves - hence the name.  Is there no way to play more than one audiolinked multipad at a time?

Although all are seamlessly looped 2 bar percussion phrases, none loop in the Tyros and there is no tempo syncing to speak of.

Is there a way to make them loop and how can they be tempo synced to the current tempo?

Thank you.

Mike

[Joe H]

Mike,

I think I answered your question above.  The solution is to convert the .WAV files to .rx2.  The audio files will be converted to usable Multi Pads by the YEM software.

Regards,
Joe H

[karmacomposer]

So I copied/imported my audio files to YEM and I cannot seem to find any way to convert to Rex2.  Is it automatic?

Mike

[Will49]

This business of WAV to REX2 is something I have no idea what you guys are talking about I'm afraid! I wish I did, so Googled it and came across someone who asked if anyone knew of a free and legal converter. The first answer was: "It doesn't exist, sorry. If it does, it's illegal". Seems some software program called 'ReCycle' is needed for the job!
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=368404

[Seagull29]

Seems some software program called 'ReCycle' is needed for the job

I agree. It's Proppelerheads Recycle, and you can build RX2 Audio File which follow tempo in a variation or a multi pad. But no harmony. It's good to make Percussions files or Drums files. And you can load these ones in Tyros 5 with YEM.

[Joe H]

I believe the Recycle does support musical phrases.  Awhile back when YEM first supported .rx2 files I converted a musical phrase.  You must first created a new User pack, then import the .rx2 to as "Content".  YEM will convert the .rx2 file to a Voice and produces a simple style file with one part in it from the .rx2 and... a Multi Pad as well.  These are then loaded into the keyboard as an expansion pack.

Joe H

[karmacomposer]

Here's the funny thing - I bought Recycle 2.xx back in the day and still have the serial number, but not the full installer.  I bought it legally from someone through a license transfer, but have no ability to download the installer.  The person I bought it from luckily still has the installer and will send me the it eventually (in the next day or so) and i'll be in business.

Yeah, Recycle is VERY proprietary and almost no one is allowed to license it from Propellorheads.  I own Reason 6.5 as well, but NEVER use it. Stylus RMX and other Spectrasonics virtual instruments (which utilize Reycle file format) I use quite a lot.

Mike

[karmacomposer]

OK. So I installed and registered Recycle and converted four grooves to both a RX2 (Recycle) file and SF2 (Soundfont) file. I put them on a thumbstick and attempted to load them in as a multipad through audiolink. Nothing showed up - I could not select either the RX2 or SF2 files.

So, how are others playing soundfonts and Recycle files?

It should be noted that I do not yet have a flash expansion memory board installed.  I am looking at the 2GB version and will eventually buy it.

Is there any way to play sf2 and rx2 files without the flash expansion board?

Mike

[Will49]

OK. So I installed and registered Recycle and converted four grooves to both a RX2 (Recycle) file and SF2 (Soundfont) file. I put them on a thumbstick and attempted to load them in as a multipad through audiolink. Nothing showed up - I could not select either the RX2 or SF2 files.

Hi Mike. Don't you have to load them into YEM first? I've no idea myself, to be honest, but have been following the posts here and reckon that's what Seagull29 and Joe H are saying you must do. Apologies if I'm barking up the wrong tree though.

Regards,
Will

[karmacomposer]

Sorry.  I forgot to mention that I DID load the files (WAV, RX2 and SF2) into YEM and followed the directions of some youtube tutorials on the subject.

YEM will not allow me to send to my Tyros, saying I don't have enough memory.  I assume that is because I don't have a flash expansion card yet.

So, there is no way to pack it up and save it on the HD of the Tyros or send it directly to the HD?  YEM won't allow it.

Mike

[Seagull29]

I believe the Recycle does support musical phrases.  Awhile back when YEM first supported .rx2 files I converted a musical phrase.  You must first created a new User pack, then import the .rx2 to as "Content".  YEM will convert the .rx2 file to a Voice and produces a simple style file with one part in it from the .rx2 and... a Multi Pad as well.  These are then loaded into the keyboard as an expansion pack.

Joe H

Hi, I just wanted to say that I don't think that RX2 Files follow harmonies and chords, whether in multipad or otherwise when you play.

[karmacomposer]

In this case, they don't necessarily have to because these are grooves.  They do tempo sync, however, which is important.

I think SF2 (soundfont) works like the internal sounds - most of my virtual instruments  use them.

Mike

[Seagull29]

In this case, they don't necessarily have to because these are grooves.  They do tempo sync, however, which is important.

Sure, and in this case, I use to make Drums parts (or pads) in styles with grooves when I want to have Audio Drums played by a real drummer.

[karmacomposer]

Sure, and in this case, I use to make Drums parts (or pads) in styles with grooves when I want to have Audio Drums played by a real drummer.

Your comment makes no sense.

These are grooves a breathing drummer could not hope to play.  They are very complex and more suitable for house, trance, dance, techno, rock, pop, industrial and EDM.

Mike

[Joe H]

Mike,

If you can create SF2 files from your grooves... that is so much better.  I have made several custom Voice packs from SF2 files.  I see that you understand that you must buy a User Memory module for your T5 before you can install any expansion pack.

BTW... There are several expansion packs for Club Dance, Trance and other EDM genre. Yamaha's Euro Dance, EasySounds Magic Dance, ans Styles2psr EDM Essential 1 Voice and Style pack.

I have all 3 of these and they by far beat the on-board sounds for EDM. We need clean sounding EDM Basses, and Pluck Leads. Yamaha falls short on these.

Have you seen my post for EDM styles from a year ago?  http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,36784.msg279390.html#msg279390

My styles are more complete and have a better mix than Yamaha styles.  And some are NOT EDM Pop like the stock styles.

Joe H

[Seagull29]

Your comment makes no sense.

These are grooves a breathing drummer could not hope to play.  They are very complex and more suitable for house, trance, dance, techno, rock, pop, industrial and EDM.

Mike

To build a REX file with Recycle, you must use an audio file and slice it at every step. In this case, it's exactly the same. The REX file will follow the tempo. You can make it with any audio file, even if it's complex. It's just a little long to produce. 

[karmacomposer]

Mike,

If you can create SF2 files from your grooves... that is so much better.  I have made several custom Voice packs from SF2 files.  I see that you understand that you must buy a User Memory module for your T5 before you can install any expansion pack.

BTW... There are several expansion packs for Club Dance, Trance and other EDM genre. Yamaha's Euro Dance, EasySounds Magic Dance, ans Styles2psr EDM Essential 1 Voice and Style pack.

I have all 3 of these and they by far beat the on-board sounds for EDM. We need clean sounding EDM Basses, and Pluck Leads. Yamaha falls short on these.

Have you seen my post for EDM styles from a year ago?  http://www.psrtutorial.com/forum/index.php/topic,36784.msg279390.html#msg279390

My styles are more complete and have a better mix than Yamaha styles.  And some are NOT EDM Pop like the stock styles.

Joe H

Thank you for that link - I will try them out.

I have a TON of soundfonts I have created that ALL can be used on the PSR 770/970/Tyros 5/Genos at my site - www.supersynths.com

Plenty of excellent bass, plucks. leads, etc for EDM, Dance, Trance, Techno, Industrial, House, Orchestral, Rock, Pop, etc.

That is why I MUST buy one of those expansion boards ASAP! I need to test them on my Tyros and make sure they sound 100% - not to mention
create presets/registrations, etc for them for the PSR 770/970/Tyros 5/Genos

Mike