Connecting external monitor to Genos

[vlbrgt]

Hello,

Last week I received my Genos. Great keyboard.

To be able to read the score on an external monitor i bought me a 'I-TEC DISPLAY ADPTER TRIO'.
This can adapt USB to VGA, HDMI or DVI. It uses the DL-195 chipset and is compatible with Yamaha Genos.
But I am not satisfied about the score screen. It is not as good as it was with my Tyros 4 and the normal VGA connection.
That the 'cursor' is not following the score is known, so that is not my issue. It's all about the look, definition, readability ...

So on another forum somebody uses a 'I-TEC USB2VGA' adapter (DL-165), and for him the screen is even better than with the Tyros serie.

My questions :
Could the used adapter be the cause of the difference  ?
Are there members who could confirm that there is a difference between adapters that are used (DL-165 , DL-195)?
I am only interested in the look of the score screen (the other screens are not important for me on the external monitor.

In another topic 'ZIONIP' has tested a few adapters and even posted some pictures.
They were looking good, but it didn't shows the score screen.

Regards
Etienne

[zionip]

Hi Etienne,

There is no difference in the output / scaling between the DisplayLink DL-165 and DL-195 chipsets - they are the same design with a slight difference of highest resolution each supports:
DL-165                DL-195
1600 x 1200        1920 x1200
1920 x 1080        1920 x 1080, 2048 x 1152

The display output of Genos, and PSR-S970, which I both own, is 800x480, which is supported by DL-165 and DL-195.  I have USB 2.0 display adapters with DL-165 and DL-195 and could not tell any difference on 1920x1080 external monitors for Genos.

The fact that you are not satisfied with the score screen is due to the scaling of 800x480 display output of Genos to your external 1920x1080 display.  You like the way how your Tyros 4 scaled 800x480 to 1920x1080, but do not like how your Genos scaled 800x480 to 1920x1080, whereas the guy in the other forum likes how Genos scales its external display output better than the Tyros.

I do not own any Tyros before, so I assume the Tyros resolution of external display output is also 800x480.

Since we cannot change the way how Genos scales its 800x480 resolution to 1920x1080 external display resolution, I ran some tests on 2 different external monitors using the same Plugable USB 2.0 to VGA/DVI/HDMI display adapter (DL-165) to see how these monitors handle the 800x480 video output of Genos.

I had a Dell S2240T 21.5-Inch touch screen monitor on the music stand of Genos, and a LG 24MP88HV-S 24-Inch IPS monitor on a standalone heavy duty music stand just above the Dell monitor:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mpRwVviJCKZXSXI62

I selected a MIDI song "Bridge over troubled water" on Genos, here is the 800x480 screen captured directly on Genos:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tr6qqiycUGIZXE0q2

Here is the picture I took on the Dell monitor:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/G9yk0PDvXfmxanbB2

Here is the picture I took on the LG monitor:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/CLclrSpu5GfyPpmx2

There are some subtle differences on how these 2 monitor handle the 800x480 resolution video input from Genos, but they are so small that we can simply ignore them and assume them to be identical.

As a comparison, I loaded the same MIDI song on PSR-S970, which has screen display very similar to the Tyros.

Here is the 800x480 screen captured directly on the S970:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/u8sE1KcNlf9b4x713

Here is how the LG monitor displayed the 800x480 resolution video output of the S970:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Pk8HjEPm6xqs4F8Z2

I compared the score outputs of the Genos and the S970 and found that the score output scaling on the S970 is slightly smoother than the Genos, with slightly less noticeable jaggedness.  The slightly meatier fonts on S970 also helps the output to be slightly smoother in appearance than the thinner fonts used on the Genos.

I hope the above answered your questions.  You can contact Yamaha customer support about your dissatisfaction on the Genos score screen display and request for better on-screen score presentation.

You might also want to explore the possibility of using your Genos to display score using external apps like SongBook+ on iPad Pro 12.9, or similar app(s) on Android tablets, with score in PDFs instead of MIDI files.

Thanks,
Paul

[zionip]

I found that Genos only supports one external display, even when multiple USB 2.0 display adapters are connected to Genos, depending on which USB 2.0 display adapter got recognized by Genos first.  In my tests, the Plugable USB 2.0 display adapter with HDMI connection got recognized by the Genos before the StarTech USB 2.0 to VGA adapter did.

To connect more than one external display to Genos, the Genos USB 2.0 display adapter outputs to a HDMI splitter / distributor / matrix switch, through which multiple external display monitors can be connected.

Paul

[vlbrgt]

Paul,

Thanks a lot for all these tests.
I can see that the result on a S970 is better than on a Genos.
What is the initial screen resolution of the internal S970 screen ? They don't mention it in the manual.

Another question :
On the Genos external monitor the 'cursor (red ball)' is not moving, does it on the S970 external monitor ?

Regards
Etienne

[zionip]

Hi Etienne,

The screen resolution of S970 built-in screen and external display output is 800x480.

On P. 130 of PSR-S970 / PSR-S770 Digital Workstation Reference Manual:
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/2/437562/psrs970_en_rm_b0.pdf
"If you want to use an original picture, prepare the desired file (a bitmap
".BMP" file no greater than 800 x 480 pixels) in the USB flash drive . . ."

The jumping red dot of the score screen on the S970 external display works:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/lYCApNmSwRcRiPf33

Thanks,
Paul

[vlbrgt]

Thanks again Paul,

The fact that the jumping red dot works on the S970 makee me think that there must be an error in the Genos software from Yamaha.
I hope they will soon fix this.

Regards
Etienne

[tyrosaurus]

I do not own any Tyros before, so I assume the Tyros resolution of external display output is also 800x480.

The display resolution on all the Tyros models is actually 640 x 480, not 800 x 480.

This may account for the difference between the Tyros and Genos displays that Etienne is noticing when they have been scaled.

Regards

Ian

[zionip]

The display resolution on all the Tyros models is actually 640 x 480, not 800 x 480.

This may account for the difference between the Tyros and Genos displays that Etienne is noticing when they have been scaled.

Regards

Ian

You are right, Ian.

I found this on P. 118 on Tyros5 owner's manual:
640 x 480 dots TFT VGA color 7.5 inch LCD

Thanks,
Paul

[vlbrgt]

Did somebody used the darwbar sliders (organ voices) in combination with an USB/VGA adapter connected ?
Try it and you will be surprised of the delay that it has.

Disconnect the USB/VGA adapter and the delay disappears...

Regards
Etienne

[HeJaYamGen]

Hi Etienne,

I am still struggling to get to work an External Monitor on my GENOS. I Have the I-Tech Trio adapter, but the Cursor (the Red Dot) not following the score.

Can you suggest another USB to VGA adapter,
which will enable running the score display correctly with the RED DOT ?
I do not know why Yamaha eliminated the D-sub VGA output which is still working nicely on my old PSR_S950.

Thank you

Best regards

[zionip]

The red dot does not follow the notes in the score screen on the external monitor of Genos - it works only on the built-in touch screen.  This is a software bug, and it is independent of what USB video adapter you use.  I tried 3 different USB 2.0 video adapters with 3 different monitors, and the red dot failed in all combinations of external display.

USB 2.0 port (for external storage, or video display) is perhaps more versatile and uses less space than VGA port (for display only) at the back of Genos.  If you have monitor with VGA connection only, there are USB 2.0 to VGA/DVI/HDMI video adapters that give you DVI connection, with DVI to VGA, and DVI to HDMI adapters based on DisplayLink DL-165/DL-195 chipsets,  so you can use any of the three video interfaces to connect to your external monitor(s).

An example is the Plugable USB 2.0 to VGA/DVI/HDMI video adapter:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004AIJE9G/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&th=1

Thanks,
Paul

[AlBags]

Great work so far! Interesting thread.
800x480 is pretty poor, screen too, for an expensive instrument.
Yamaha better pull their socks up on successor!
I am a lover of HDMI 2.1 onwards, because of its capabilities ... never VGA or DVi .. they are gone.

Al.

[zolux]

Hi zionip Paul,

When you play a midifile on Genos and you need to see the lyrics on an external monitor,
can you also see the same lyrics on the Genos screen at the same time? I believe this is called mirror.

My problem is that I need to see on the Genos screen, the channels of the midifile, in case I need to modified them or any other control on the fly in a live performance.

Do you know how to do this, or as a matter of facts, can this be done on Genos, as I can not find any information on the owner's manual or the reference manual.

Thank you in advance.

Zolux

Juan

[Fred Smith]

When you play a midifile on Genos and you need to see the lyrics on an external monitor,
can you also see the same lyrics on the Genos screen at the same time? I believe this is called mirror.

My problem is that I need to see on the Genos screen, the channels of the midifile, in case I need to modified them or any other control on the fly in a live performance.

Do you know how to do this, or as a matter of facts, can this be done on Genos, as I can not find any information on the owner's manual or the reference manual.

You can have the Genos screen mirror the external monitor, or it can be independent. It's up to you.

Cheers,
Fred

[overover]

... When you play a midifile on Genos and you need to see the lyrics on an external monitor, can you also see the same lyrics on the Genos screen at the same time? I believe this is called mirror.

My problem is that I need to see on the Genos screen, the channels of the midifile, in case I need to modified them or any other control on the fly in a live performance.

Do you know how to do this, or as a matter of facts, can this be done on Genos, as I can not find any information on the owner's manual or the reference manual. ...

Hi Juan,

when a compatible USB display adapter is connected to the Genos (for example "i-tec TRIO"), the new entries "Menu - Utility ---> Speaker/Connectivity ---> Display Out ---> Content" will be displayed (after rebooting the Genos).

There you can switch between two settings:

LCD = same as Genos screen on external display

Lyrics/Text = always Lyrics or Text on external display (no matter what is displayed on internal Genos screen)


Best regards,
Chris

[zionip]

Hi zionip Paul,

When you play a midifile on Genos and you need to see the lyrics on an external monitor,
can you also see the same lyrics on the Genos screen at the same time? I believe this is called mirror.

My problem is that I need to see on the Genos screen, the channels of the midifile, in case I need to modified them or any other control on the fly in a live performance.

Do you know how to do this, or as a matter of facts, can this be done on Genos, as I can not find any information on the owner's manual or the reference manual.

Thank you in advance.

Zolux

Juan

Hi Juan,

What overover mentioned is the correct procedure of setting external display to receive Lyrics screen:
Menu - Menu2 - Utility - Speaker/Connectivity - Display Out Content - Lyrics/Text (toggles between LCD and Lyrics/Text)

In Song mode, the default display on the built-in touch screen is the dual-player mode interface (you can press the on-screen Dual/List switch to toggle to MIDI song list, Genos Owner's Manual verson D, page 73).  Press the Lyrics on-screen button at the bottom of the dual player screen to get the Lyrics screen to both built-in touch screen and external display.  Then press the Exit button for the built-in touch screen to return to dual-player screen, and the external display still remains at the Lyrics screen as shown below:


If you want to see the channels of the MIDI song, you can press the Exit button to return the built-in touch screen to Home screen, then press the Channel on-screen button of the Home screen to see the 16 MIDI channels of the song (Genos Reference Manual version D, page 64):


Thanks,
Paul

[zolux]

Gentlemen I am impress with your knowledge and generosity,

Thank you very much "overover" and "zionip" and also the always mysterious but very helpful Fred.

I can assure you all, that, it is a pleasure to read your answers and solutions to the different problems that we encounter daily on this page.

Un abrazo

Juan

[mcbrown]

I am looking at purchasing this adaptor at the moment to get the Genos connected to my monitor.

https://www.thomannmusic.com/i_tec_usb2hdtrio.htm

Murray

[zionip]

I am looking at purchasing this adaptor at the moment to get the Genos connected to my monitor.

https://www.thomannmusic.com/i_tec_usb2hdtrio.htm

Murray

Hi Murray,

Good choice.

According to the following URL, the iTec USB2HDTrio adapter that you are looking to buy to get the Genos connected to external display is based on the DisplayLink DL-165 chipset, which is in the published tested device list to work for Genos:
https://icecat.us/en_in/p/i-tec/usb2hdtrio/usb-graphics-adapters-USB+2.0+Display+Video+Adapter+Advance+TRIO-3934033.html

Thanks,
Paul

[zolux]

Hi Juan,

when a compatible USB display adapter is connected to the Genos (for example "i-tec TRIO"), the new entries "Menu - Utility ---> Speaker/Connectivity ---> Display Out ---> Content" will be displayed (after rebooting the Genos).

There you can switch between two settings:

LCD = same as Genos screen on external display

Lyrics/Text = always Lyrics or Text on external display (no matter what is displayed on internal Genos screen)


Best regards,
Chris

Hi Chris and Paul, sorry to bother you again.

I have follow your instructions and when I reach Speaker/Connectivity I press it and the page only shows, Speaker - Headphone Switch and Digital Out Level - 0dB,
but not, Display Out, Content - LCD - Lyrics/Text, therefore I am not able to carry on.

I have installed 3 times O.S.1.3 just in case I had a faulty O.S. and one of them from Yamaha American page but not one of them shows me the missing Display Out - Content.....etc.

Chris, you said in your answer to me that the Display Out - Content.....etc. will be displayed (after rebooting the Genos), rebooting the Genos means to switch the Genos off and on, because I have done it but to no avail, the Display Out - Content - LCD - Lyrics/Text is still missing, it does not shows.

I am doing all this with a i-tec usb 3.0 Display Adapter Trio conected to the Genos's usb at the back but it did'nt work then try again with the one at the front but it didn't worked either.

Could it be that my Genos is faulty?

Can you think of any new ideas to solve this problem?

I thank you and Paul - zionip in advance and please forgive me for taking some of your time over this matter.

P.S. Could anybody else try this on your Genos and report if it encounter the same problem or if it works? Thank you all

Juan

[Fred Smith]

It's more likely your display adaptor is faulty.

There's no value is reinstalling the OS, or testing out other USB ports. It has to be the one at the back.

Insert your adaptor into the back USB, then power on the Genos. If that doesn't get you the Display Out option, I'd get a new adaptor.

Hope this helps,
Fred

[Patt22]

Hello,

Juan... You wrote:
"I'm doing all this with an i-tec USB 3.0 trio adapter connected to the Genos USB port at the rear but it didn't work so try again with the front one but it didn't work either. "

Your adapter must be in USB2 and not in USB3 for the Genos in order for your outdoor monitor to work!

In other words, you need USB i-tec USB 2 connected to the Genos... and it should work... see the references given in the previous messages...

Patrick

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

[zionip]

Hi Juan,

You bought the wrong video adapter for your Genos - you need to return the USB 3.0 video adapter to exchange for a proper one described below.

iTec USB 3.0 display adapter is based on DisplayLink DL-3500 chipset, which is not supported by the Linux OS (aka firmware) running on Genos.  Genos only supports USB 2.0 display adapters based on DisplayLink DL-165 or DL-195 chipset.  USB 2.0 or 3.0 video display adapters based on other chipsets are not supported by Genos according to my test results, and Yamaha's published tested device list.

From the following Amazon link, you can see that your iTec USB 3.0 display adapter is based on DisplayLink DL-3500 chipset, which is not supported by Genos:
https://www.amazon.com/Display-Adapter-Advance-2048x1152-External/dp/B01GE0CD4A

Yamaha published a list of compatible USB 2.0 display adapters for Genos, all based on DisplayLink DL-165 / DL-195 chipset:

Tested device list
Manufacturer              Model
i-Tec                          USB2VGA
i-Tec                          USB2HDTRIO
TRENDNET                 TU2-DVIV
DIGITUS                    DA-70833
DIGITUS                    DA-70834
Plugable                     UGA-165
UGREEN                     40244
V.TOP                        U2-165-VGA
Diamond Multimedia   BVU165
Diamond Multimedia   BVU195
Accell                        J130B-001B
BUFFALO                   GX-HDMI/U2

I personally like the following $33.95 Plugable USB 2.0 display adapter with options for DVI/VGA/HDMI (based on DisplayLink DL-165 chipset):
https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Graphics-Multiple-1920x1080-Chromebook/dp/B004D0QC0A?th=1

Thanks,
Paul

[zolux]

Thank you Fred, Patrick and Paul for your comments and advice.

I have already bought the video adapter that Paul has recomended and I will have it in a couple of weeks.

As soon as I have it installed I will let you all know.

Thank you again for your time.

Un abrazo

Juan

Zolux

[Wim NL]

I bought the itech USB2HDTRIO
Works OK besides the jumping ball.

[zolux]

Hi everybody,
I have received and installed the Plugable USB 2.0 display adapter with options for DVI/VGA/HDMI (based on DisplayLink DL-165 chipset):
that Paul zionip recomended me, and it works perfectly.

Thank you Paul and everyone else that joined in.

Juan

[zionip]

Sometimes when we play Genos outside of our house, the non-tiltable Genos screen could cause some viewing issues due to overhead lighting conditions.  We can use an external monitor to alleviate the problem since we can most likely tilt the external monitor.  However, an external monitor is bulky and inconvenient to transport, and we cannot guarantee to be able to find an external monitor at the job site.  A laptop / notebook (Window 10 laptop or MacBook Pro) is far easier to transport and more versatile than a 'dumb' monitor.

I found that with an Elgato Cam Link USB 3.0 to HDMI dongle, we can easily display our Genos main screen to a Windows 10 laptop or a MacBook Pro notebook screen.  I posted the following message on the subforum "Genos and iPad & Songbook+" and think that putting this particular thread in the Genos General forum may be more interesting and useful to some Genos owners.

To output Genos display on to the laptop screen is quite straight forward:

Genos back USB port - Plugable USB 2.0 display adapter (or any USB 2.0 display adapter with HDMI output, based on the DisplayLink DL-165 / DL-195 chipset) - HDMI cable - Elgato Cam Link - Windows 10 laptop / Apple MacBook Pro

I plugged the Elgato Cam Link (a USB 3.0 to HDMI dongle with an extension cord) into a USB 3.0 port of my touchscreen laptop.  Since the Elgato Cam Link is a class compliant device, I did not need to install any driver for it.  Windows 10 immediately recognized the Elgato Cam Link as a webcam when it was plugged in.  The Elgato Cam Link became an available webcam, to the Windows 10 laptop.  The Elgato Cam Link works on MacBook Pro as a webcam similarly.

I already had a Plugable USB 2.0 display adapter plugged into the back USB 2.0 port of Genos.  I then connected a HDMI cable to the Plugable USB 2.0 display adapter's HDMI output on one end, and the Elgato Cam Link HDMI input on the other end.  Then on the Windows 10 laptop, I ran the Windows 10 built-in "camera" app and click the camera choice icon on the top left of the camera app to choose Elgato Cam Link.  Then the Genos screen was displayed on the laptop screen through the camera app as shown on the following photo:



I purposely put the Elgato Cam Link between the screen and the keyboard of the laptop so you can see it.

The Elgato Cam Link is very useful device - it can connect any camera, including DSLR, mirrorless, action cam, with HDMI output as webcam on your computer so we can use it in video chatting, recording etc.  It also allows game consoles to display on the PC/laptop screen.

For Genos owners, many applications are made easier with Genos external display through the Elgato Cam Link to a laptop screen:
1.  Workaround/solution for overhead lighting conditions.
2.  Lyrics display for singers.
3.  Live recording of Genos on-screen operations for tutorial / demonstration without camera shaking.
4.  Easy screen capturing of Genos screen without having to press Break + Ending2 + Ending3 while booting Genos, and press the OTS4 button to capture screen - with the Elgato Cam Link we do not have to sacrifice the use of OTS4 button just for screen capturing.

Thanks,
Paul

[Al Ram]

Paul
thanks so much for this valuable information. This is great info.

One question on this Elgato installation . . . .   

If the laptop is a W10 with touch screen.     Once connected to Genos . . . . can you select the Genos options using the laptop touch screen ?  or do you have to select on Genos screen ?

thanks a lot.

[zionip]

Paul
thanks so much for this valuable information. This is great info.

One question on this Elgato installation . . . .   

If the laptop is a W10 with touch screen.     Once connected to Genos . . . . can you select the Genos options using the laptop touch screen ?  or do you have to select on Genos screen ?

thanks a lot.

Hi Al,

You have to touch the built-in Genos touch screen - Genos firmware / OS does not support touch for external display. 

FYI, Yamaha Montage synth supports touch for external display, but we still have to use the Montage built-in touch screen for touch functions with Elgato Cam Link.

The Elgato Cam Link just handles the display with no touch support because the Windows 10 Camera app is for camera/webcam operations only, so we can just hit the camera button to take a snapshot, hit the recording button to record the screen, or touch the screen to focus (not applicable in this case).

Thanks,
Paul

[Al Ram]

Paul

thanks a lot.  It is good to know.

Have a great day