Convert 4/4 Freeplay style to 3/4

[bpsafran]

The Freeplay styles are programmed in 4/4  time which puts the bass notes on beat 1 (and sometimes 2).  However if you use these for a song in 3/4 time, the bass note will not start in the first beat of the measures in 3/4 time. Is there a way to use style creator to change these Freeplay styles from 4/4 to 3/4 and get the bass notes to play correctly?

Thanks

[mikf]

The idea of a freeplay style is that you are NOT playing in tempo. There is no beat one or beat two.....
If you want a style that plays in tempo, and has a bass line on the correct beat, but has no drums and only pad background sounds, you need to choose a proper 3/4 style then go into style creator and erase all the drum or phrases and replace with continuous pad sounds. Then save as a new style.
Mike

[anandmaloo]

Hi Bpsafran,

You can go to the style editor and change the beat from 4/4 to 3/4 (I am not sure but I think it is in groove section. you will find it somewhere there). Change it for all tracks. That should serve your purpose

Regards

Anand

[colas musique]

Hello,

I recently completed this tutorial, which applies to all styles.
Indeed, for free-play, there are no accented beats.
To make this more convenient, I recommend putting the original style and its copy on a USB drive so as not to interfere with the keyboard conten

Have a nice day.

Christian

[valimaties]

Hi Bpsafran,

You can go to the style editor and change the beat from 4/4 to 3/4 (I am not sure but I think it is in groove section. you will find it somewhere there). Change it for all tracks. That should serve your purpose

Regards

Anand

Hi.
You cannot change, as you tell. Because changing time signature of a style part (variations, fills, intros, endings) which has already midi events and data it will prompt you that all data will be cleared/erased.

The things are not so easy as it should be (or at least does not work on G2 as it should)
You have to cut the 4th beat in each measure by yourself. So, given this, I think the best way of converting 4/4 to 3/4 is to first time convert 4/4 to 1/4 and then make the adjustments by copying data from one position to another.

Why do you need to cut the 4th beat? Is simple, let exemplify:

Main A, 4/4 time signature, pattern length = 4 measures.
1 2 3 4 | 1 2 3 4 | 1 2 3 4 | 1 2 3 4 |

Simple conversion to 3/4, ONLY using assembly function, to, lets say, Intro 4:

You need Intro 4 to be set to 3/4 time signature, and to grab all data from Main A, you will need pattern length of 6 measures. Using Assembly function will generate this data:

1 2 3 | 4 1 2 | 3 4 1 | 2 3 4 | 1 2 3 | 4 * * |

So, you will have the last measure which does not have all data filled in it. And more than that, the first beat of each measure does not have the correct accent/midi data.


Let me explain how to do it correctly:

Main A, 4/4 time signature, pattern length = 4 measures.
1 2 3 4 | 1 2 3 4 | 1 2 3 4 | 1 2 3 4 |

Select Intro 4.
Set time signature to 1/4, pattern length = 16

Use assembly function and get data from Main A. Result will be:

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |

If you'll look in Step Edit, you will see that each beat of initial 4/4 now will start at beat 1. So measure-beat-clock data will be 1:1:0000, 2:1:0000 etc (clock data could be other values, not exactly 0000, depending on initial style's data)


Now, to cut the 4th beat of original 4/4 measure in this new 1/4 time signature, we need to use copy function, from the Channel Edit page. Practically, we must move important data, to have only the sequence of 1,2,3 midi data into our pattern (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,etc ).
First, we need to select Source top = 5 (the second 1 value in our pattern length of 16 of 1/4), Source last = 15 (we don't need the last "4" beat in our pattern length of 16 of 1/4), and Destination set to 4. And execute! Data will become like this:

1 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 4 |

Repeat this last step with Src Top = 8, Src Last = 14 (skip again the 4th in the end), Dest = 7. Data will become:

1 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 |

And the last time, repeat the step with Src Top = 11, Src Last = 13, Dest = 10. Execute! Data will become:

1 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 

In this step you will have the correct order of beats for conversion from 4/4 to 3/4 .

Now, change the pattern length from 16 to 12, because we want to throw up those "4"s. Execute! Data will become:

1 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 3 |

Save style (a temporary copy).

Select Ending 4, and set its time signature to 3/4, pattern length 4.
Select Assembly and get data for each channel from Intro 4. The data for Ending 4 would be:

3/4
1 2 3 | 1 2 3 | 1 2 3 | 1 2 3 |

Save style again (override).

Select Main A and change time signature to 3/4. The keyboard will say that all data will be erased, because it cannot convert time signature with data filled into it. Accept this step. Main A will be empty, but with desire time signature. Assure the pattern length is as there was before, so set it as 4. Finally, use assembly function and grab data from Ending 4. And save the style.

I think this is the correct procedure, converting a style from 4/4 to 3/4.

PS: If the style is a free style and the note lengths are equals to pattern length x bars (full pattern note), then the conversion is more simple. What I proposed here is a general conversion time signature for a style, from 4/4 to 3/4.

PS2: You can use directly Main A, instead of Ending 4. And after you finnish the convertion, does not forget to delete data from Intro 4 and Ending 4. You will not need it, and is not ok to make the size of style bigger as long as that data will not be accessible from style player.

I hope it was a good explanation!

Regards,
Vali

[bpsafran]

Many thanks.  I think I understand: you are suggesting using Intro4 and Ending4 (which have no data in them) as temporary holders for the edited measures and then Variation A (for example) can have its time signature changed which will erased all its data. At the end, I would then copy Ending4 in to VariationA.

Sounds complicated and you did warn us that it was not simple.

What about starting with a style that is already in 3/4 and then using style assembly to insert the sections (track by track, unfortunately as we have to do) from a FreePlay style.  Might that preserve the bass on the first measure and just cut off the last measure?

While the FreePlay styles have no rhthym, at least some have a bass note that is not held the entire time, but starts and stops at the beginning of the pattern. If I play that in 3/4 time (supposedly "free-tempo"), I do not get the bass note at the correct position.  Since I use fingered on bass to provide bass progressions, getting the bass note is important.

[valimaties]

Many thanks.  I think I understand: you are suggesting using Intro4 and Ending4 (which have no data in them) as temporary holders for the edited measures and then Variation A (for example) can have its time signature changed which will erased all its data. At the end, I would then copy Ending4 in to VariationA.

Sounds complicated and you did warn us that it was not simple.

What about starting with a style that is already in 3/4 and then using style assembly to insert the sections (track by track, unfortunately as we have to do) from a FreePlay style.  Might that preserve the bass on the first measure and just cut off the last measure?

While the FreePlay styles have no rhthym, at least some have a bass note that is not held the entire time, but starts and stops at the beginning of the pattern. If I play that in 3/4 time (supposedly "free-tempo"), I do not get the bass note at the correct position.  Since I use fingered on bass to provide bass progressions, getting the bass note is important.

Again, is not so simple. You must check if the notes in the first bar are the only one in the channel, for each channel. If not, then the accent from 4/4 will not be placed correctly in the converted 3/4. Only using my method it will generate correctly the accents.
I made the schema of how the Assembly will work. If you want to only grab the data from 4/4 to 3/4, the accents will not be positioning correctly.
So, for 1 2 3 | 4 1 2 | 3 4 1 | 2 3 4 | 1 2 3 | 4 * * | accents will be on 1 and 3 (or only on 1) which will create strange accents on 3/4.

Regards,
Vali

[mikf]

If you are genuinely playing in free time there is no way to have a bass note programmed in the style land exactly when you play the first note of the bar. The styles are midi loops and when notes play is controlled by an internal time clock, and the tempo setting,  not by what and when you play. So it will play at the programmed time regardless of what you play. The only way to have notes in a style play as you suggest ie have the bass notes play at a particular time is to play in tempo, not out of tempo. The time signature is NOT the problem.
If you are really playing in freetime the only way to have a bass note sound exactly when you want is for you to play it.

As a side note, there have been many discussions over the years about time signatures and the bottom line is that they are pretty much irrelevant in midi loops. The notes all play relative to a time clock. The time signature on a style is really just information to you, as to how the style has been programmed and will sound. If a style has been called 4/4 ballad changing the name to 3/4 ballad changes nothing. It's still the same style with the notes landing where they are programmed according to the time clocks- not the time signature. Freestyles are exactly the same, but have been programmed to eliminate notes and sounds that set rhythmic elements. That way they 'appear' to a listener have no set tempo, although they actually still do.
Mike